RugbyRebels

Posted: **Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:34 pm**

Anyone know when the teams are announced?

Puja

Posted: **Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:41 pm**

Thursday isn't it? Wales might name there's earlier but the RFU like to make us wait. Spoilsports.

Posted: **Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:42 pm**

It'll be hewn into stone tablets

Posted: **Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:00 pm**

The build-up to the first selection of any series is a favourite of mine. You’d have to have a heart of stone to think otherwise.

Posted: **Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:09 pm**

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:00 pm The build-up to the first selection of any series is a favourite of mine. You’d have to have a heart of stone to think otherwise.

Agreed. It is the peak time for optimism.

Posted: **Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:27 pm**

Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:09 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:00 pm The build-up to the first selection of any series is a favourite of mine. You’d have to have a heart of stone to think otherwise.
Agreed. It is the peak time for optimism.

You don't anticipate a rocky start then? Sorry, I don't want to undermine your optimism.

Puja

Posted: **Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:31 pm**

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:34 pmAnyone know when the teams are announced?

He doesn't like telling anyone anything, so it'll be the very last minute that Stoney Bathcladding is forced to release the details.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:12 am**

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:27 pm
Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:09 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:00 pm The build-up to the first selection of any series is a favourite of mine. You’d have to have a heart of stone to think otherwise.
Agreed. It is the peak time for optimism.
You don't anticipate a rocky start then? Sorry, I don't want to undermine your optimism.

Puja

It's the time when the heart rules the head.

All I ever want is 'best-possible' performances. If the players aren't good enough, tough titty. No true English fan can swallow the team unit being consistently less than the sum of its parts, the situation that we have faced for many years with Jones. Banquo (whose opinion I have valued so highly for 17 years of posting on this board) and others point out that our players are not a world-beating group. That is true and cannot be helped but a head coach's job is to get the best out of the collective unit.

I think SB will eventually get a unit that gives its all. He was not my favourite player and I have reservations about him as a coach. However, he is far more suited to the job than his predecessor. How will we do? I expect to see a well-drilled set-piece and good competitive application when we are out of possession. The key is whether we are good enough to win games with more than 50% possession. My fear is that SB will judge us not up to that by adopting a kick-for-mistakes poIcy to too great an extent.

So, the head says we won't see much that's pretty, starting with the warm-ups and with a QF place the height of ambition in the competition itself. The heart dreams of application like a team of fifteen Lewis Moodys, leading to the opposition being on the back foot from minutes 1 to 80 - just balls-out, go-for-it effort. Then, we have the skill for victory or we don't.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:38 am**

Puja wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:27 pm
Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:09 pm
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:00 pm The build-up to the first selection of any series is a favourite of mine. You’d have to have a heart of stone to think otherwise.
Agreed. It is the peak time for optimism.
You don't anticipate a rocky start then? Sorry, I don't want to undermine your optimism.

Puja

ore......

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:06 am**

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:12 am
Puja wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:27 pm
Oakboy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:09 pm

Agreed. It is the peak time for optimism.
You don't anticipate a rocky start then? Sorry, I don't want to undermine your optimism.

Puja
It's the time when the heart rules the head.

All I ever want is 'best-possible' performances. If the players aren't good enough, tough titty. No true English fan can swallow the team unit being consistently less than the sum of its parts, the situation that we have faced for many years with Jones. Banquo (whose opinion I have valued so highly for 17 years of posting on this board) and others point out that our players are not a world-beating group. That is true and cannot be helped but a head coach's job is to get the best out of the collective unit.

I think SB will eventually get a unit that gives its all. He was not my favourite player and I have reservations about him as a coach. However, he is far more suited to the job than his predecessor. How will we do? I expect to see a well-drilled set-piece and good competitive application when we are out of possession. The key is whether we are good enough to win games with more than 50% possession. My fear is that SB will judge us not up to that by adopting a kick-for-mistakes poIcy to too great an extent.

So, the head says we won't see much that's pretty, starting with the warm-ups and with a QF place the height of ambition in the competition itself. The heart dreams of application like a team of fifteen Lewis Moodys, leading to the opposition being on the back foot from minutes 1 to 80 - just balls-out, go-for-it effort. Then, we have the skill for victory or we don't.

Don't think that a QF place should be the height of our ambitions. Given that it's very likely we'll meet either Australia or Wales at that stage, we should absolutely be targeting the semi finals. Australia have looked woeful recently and Wales were appalling in the 6N.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:47 am**

A SF is eminently achievable. We have a good draw and wont be facing one of the best teams until after the QF.

The warm ups will tell us a bit about where we are. Hopefully we'll see some improvement from the 6N's. SB has had the players for a time now and you'd expect to see advances in a number of areas.

Who plays and how? Well, the squad is pretty conservative and i'm not expecting huge adventure in the playing style.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:15 am**

Wales side to face England: Leigh Halfpenny; Louis Rees-Zammit, George North, Max Llewellyn, Rio Dyer; Sam Costelow, Gareth Davies; Corey Domachowski, Ryan Elias, Keiron Assiratti, Dafydd Jenkins, Will Rowlands, Christ Tshiunza, Jac Morgan (captain), Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Elliot Dee, Nicky Smith, Henry Thomas, Ben Carter, Taine Plumtree, Tomos Williams, Dan Biggar, Mason Grady.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:16 am**

Nice mix of experience and youth for Wales. Big midfield.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:17 am**

fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:47 am A SF is eminently achievable. We have a good draw and wont be facing one of the best teams until after the QF.

The warm ups will tell us a bit about where we are. Hopefully we'll see some improvement from the 6N's. SB has had the players for a time now and you'd expect to see advances in a number of areas.

Who plays and how? Well, the squad is pretty conservative and i'm not expecting huge adventure in the playing style.

Are you confident that we'll beat Argentina and Japan? Just asking. After the 6N, I really don't know where we are at on the global stage.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:27 am**

It's an interesting one. Argentina and Japan are entirely different propositions though.

Probably tempting fate with the shadow of Brighton, but losing to this current Japan team is fairly unthinkable for me. They really haven't been up to much and there really is no excuse for losing to them in a major tournament. Argentina are a completely different story, and whilst our record against them is good, they are clearly a threat.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:50 am**

Fairly decent looking Wales side, though I don't know much about that front row and it must be a fairly green 10/12 combo. They ditched Hawkins for signing for Exeter, but hasn't Llewellyn signed for Gloucester?

Wales: 15. Leigh Halfpenny, 14. Louis Rees-Zammit, 13. George North, 12. Max Llewellyn, 11. Rio Dyer, 10. Sam Costelow, 9. Gareth Davies, 1. Corey Domachowski, 2. Ryan Elias, 3. Keiron Assiratti, 4. Dafydd Jenkins, 5. Will Rowlands, 6. Christ Tshiunza, 7. Jac Morgan (capt), 8. Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: 16. Elliot Dee, 17. Nicky Smith, 18. Henry Thomas, 19. Ben Carter, 20. Taine Plumtree, 21. Tomos Williams, 22. Dan Biggar, 23. Mason Grady.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:04 am**

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:17 am
fivepointer wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:47 am A SF is eminently achievable. We have a good draw and wont be facing one of the best teams until after the QF.

The warm ups will tell us a bit about where we are. Hopefully we'll see some improvement from the 6N's. SB has had the players for a time now and you'd expect to see advances in a number of areas.

Who plays and how? Well, the squad is pretty conservative and i'm not expecting huge adventure in the playing style.
Are you confident that we'll beat Argentina and Japan? Just asking. After the 6N, I really don't know where we are at on the global stage.

Argentina will be a challenge. Japan less so.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:07 am**

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:50 am They ditched Hawkins for signing for Exeter, but hasn't Llewellyn signed for Gloucester?

Ah semantics of the WRU system. Hawkins left after his first cap so is now unavailable for the national side. Llewellyn left before his first cap so is still available.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:32 am**

Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:17 amAre you confident that we'll beat Argentina and Japan? Just asking. After the 6N, I really don't know where we are at on the global stage.

We should beat Japan, whilst we "should" beat Argentina it's a much, much closer thing.
Which doesn't mean that we will, or particularly that I'm confident of doing so; but take the pressure of a RWC off, and allow this same amount of time in camp; play those matches 10 times on neutral ground, with the current teams, and...

I'd expect to beat Japan 9 or 10 times out of 10
I'd expect to beat Argentina 5-6 times out of 10

I'd argue that that's also born out by the rankings; where we're <1 point ahead of Argentina, but 6 points ahead of Japan.

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:48 pm**

anyone seen the welsh side yet?

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:25 pm**

Depending on the England side that could be four players all from the same Tigers U18 winning side on the pitch and one from the losing glaws side!

Steward, Martin, JVP, Costelow and LRZ

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:35 pm**

Telegraph reckons Care/Smith to start the Wales game, with Genge captaining and no Farrell.

https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://ww ... -audition/

Puja

Posted: **Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:45 pm**

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:32 am
Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:17 amAre you confident that we'll beat Argentina and Japan? Just asking. After the 6N, I really don't know where we are at on the global stage.
We should beat Japan, whilst we "should" beat Argentina it's a much, much closer thing.
Which doesn't mean that we will, or particularly that I'm confident of doing so; but take the pressure of a RWC off, and allow this same amount of time in camp; play those matches 10 times on neutral ground, with the current teams, and...

I'd expect to beat Japan 9 or 10 times out of 10
I'd expect to beat Argentina 5-6 times out of 10

I'd argue that that's also born out by the rankings; where we're <1 point ahead of Argentina, but 6 points ahead of Japan.

Agreed. Although our record is a fair bit better than 5 or 6/10 vs. Argentina. It’s hard to gauge as while we had a terrible 12mths, they had quite the opposite.

It’s not that long since we last played them and while they won, they weren’t particularly impressive. I think the general consensus was that we should have won the game but threw it away by failing to convert the opportunities we had.

I can’t decide whether playing them first is a good thing or a bad thing? In some respects, it would be better to play them after building a bit of momentum, but OTOH, they have no chance to build any either.

They’ll definitely believe they can beat us, but I think that could be quite a fragile confidence.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:09 am**

Scrumhead wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:45 pm
Which Tyler wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 11:32 am
Oakboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:17 amAre you confident that we'll beat Argentina and Japan? Just asking. After the 6N, I really don't know where we are at on the global stage.
We should beat Japan, whilst we "should" beat Argentina it's a much, much closer thing.
Which doesn't mean that we will, or particularly that I'm confident of doing so; but take the pressure of a RWC off, and allow this same amount of time in camp; play those matches 10 times on neutral ground, with the current teams, and...

I'd expect to beat Japan 9 or 10 times out of 10
I'd expect to beat Argentina 5-6 times out of 10

I'd argue that that's also born out by the rankings; where we're <1 point ahead of Argentina, but 6 points ahead of Japan.
Agreed. Although our record is a fair bit better than 5 or 6/10 vs. Argentina. It’s hard to gauge as while we had a terrible 12mths, they had quite the opposite.

It’s not that long since we last played them and while they won, they weren’t particularly impressive. I think the general consensus was that we should have won the game but threw it away by failing to convert the opportunities we had.

I can’t decide whether playing them first is a good thing or a bad thing? In some respects, it would be better to play them after building a bit of momentum, but OTOH, they have no chance to build any either.

They’ll definitely believe they can beat us, but I think that could be quite a fragile confidence.

I think the 2nd sentence of your 2nd pararaph is a litmus test for a head coach. Getting a chance and taking it is far more about the players' natural ability than the coach's playbook. Yes, the coach's work provides structure for the build-up etc. but there is a point at which simple rugby skill takes over. I think the spirit within the team counts for so much in finishing off. That means confidence as a collective state of mind and a total self-belief in individual ability. It's the coach's job to achieve the necessary freedom of thought at the right time. Hesitation means inaccuracy.

I'd suggest it has been England's biggest failing in recent years. I doubt that Jason Robinson would have thrived under Jones, for example. It may even be a factor in assessing how good our players are. Some just might have more to give.

Posted: **Thu Aug 03, 2023 11:09 am**

Rumoured XXIII:
15. Freddie Steward
14. Cadan Murley
13. Ollie Lawrence
12. Manu Tuilagi
11. Henry Arundell
10. Marcus Smith
9. Danny Care

1. Ellis Genge
2. Jamie George
3. Will Stuart
4. Maro Itoje
5. George Martin
6. Courtney Lawes
7. Ben Earl
8. Tom Willis

Subs
16. Theo Dan
17. Joe Marler
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. David Ribbans
20. Lewis Ludlam
21. Ben Youngs
22. George Ford
23. Elliot Daly

It is from Ruck, so take it with a large enough pinch of salt to choke a thousand hearts, but it's what there is right now. Not too unhappy with that as a side for a first hitout. The absence of Pearson wouldn't bode well - I don't see him as being far enough ahead to get a squad place without a single cap and, if he hasn't made the XXIII, then it's likely he's already one of the seven on the way out. Would be great to see Itoje/Martin. I am concerned about Manu/Lawrence being tried with Smith and Ford, the two fly-halves that could actually make it work. I'm worried it'd be a success here and then be ported for use with Farrell where it wouldn't be.

But, again, this is from Ruck, so probably as accurate as any of our own personal XVs that we put up on this board. Yes, I am struggling with my work and looking for distractions this morning, why do you ask?

Puja

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