RugbyRebels

So it looks like our lack of a bonus point against Wales, Ireland and England means we will finish 4th again.

I'm not convinced bonus points are fairly reflecting the performance on the pitch.

France have been rank rotten but could well finish 2nd,

The french don't get prison shamed when they lose.

We left a boatload of tries on the field in our two wins. England in particular we should have gone for the jugular and nabbed the 4th try if we had aims of finishing high up the table.

If we didn't get prison shamed twice we'd probably be third with a real shout at staying there or finishing second. So no, 4th does reflect the performances on the pitch.

whatisthejava wrote:So it looks like our lack of a bonus point against Wales, Ireland and England means we will finish 4th again.

I'm not convinced bonus points are fairly reflecting the performance on the pitch.

France have been rank rotten but could well finish 2nd,

Hard to say. They've beaten England and bar a pretty special drop goal would have beaten grand slam chasing Ireland.

We leaked tries against the Irish and Welsh and we've actually scored 2 fewer tries than Italy. So I reckon 4th is about right just now. In fact finishing 5th wouldn't even be that much of a surprise. We need to thump Italy this weekend but I cant see it. It will probably be a narrow, nervy win.

Fair point. We really have not been as good as some Scots would have you think.

A BP win against Italy on the weekend gets Gregor pass marks - just. Anything else is a fail.

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Fair point. We really have not been as good as some Scots would have you think.

A BP win against Italy on the weekend gets Gregor pass marks - just. Anything else is a fail.

I agree. Sadly, beating England is enough for too many fans. The table looks fairly bleak to me at the moment but a lot can change with the final weekend.

Chunks Baws wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Fair point. We really have not been as good as some Scots would have you think.

A BP win against Italy on the weekend gets Gregor pass marks - just. Anything else is a fail.

I agree. Sadly, beating England is enough for too many fans. The table looks fairly bleak to me at the moment but a lot can change with the final weekend.

To be fair, that game against Ireland spoils the bigger picture.
Let us not forget that this is Townsend's first 6 nations.
Overall I think it is a good 6 nations with lots to learn from.
We are just disappointed because we know that this team is capable of more.
Considering where we've come from though, I'm delighted.

Adder wrote:

Chunks Baws wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Fair point. We really have not been as good as some Scots would have you think.

A BP win against Italy on the weekend gets Gregor pass marks - just. Anything else is a fail.

I agree. Sadly, beating England is enough for too many fans. The table looks fairly bleak to me at the moment but a lot can change with the final weekend.

To be fair, that game against Ireland spoils the bigger picture.
Let us not forget that this is Townsend's first 6 nations.
Overall I think it is a good 6 nations with lots to learn from.
We are just disappointed because we know that this team is capable of more.
Considering where we've come from though, I'm delighted.

A few bonus points and my tune would be completely different. I'm just being a miserable fucker. But, like I said, a lot can change with the final weekend and we have a decent chance of finishing third.

Adder wrote:

Chunks Baws wrote:

hugh_woatmeigh wrote:Fair point. We really have not been as good as some Scots would have you think.

A BP win against Italy on the weekend gets Gregor pass marks - just. Anything else is a fail.

I agree. Sadly, beating England is enough for too many fans. The table looks fairly bleak to me at the moment but a lot can change with the final weekend.

To be fair, that game against Ireland spoils the bigger picture.
Let us not forget that this is Townsend's first 6 nations.
Overall I think it is a good 6 nations with lots to learn from.
We are just disappointed because we know that this team is capable of more.
Considering where we've come from though, I'm delighted.

Sorry I am not sure I can agree with thay last line. "Where we've come from though, I'm delighted"? How far back are you talking?

2016 6N: won 2, 11 tries, 122 pts for, 115 against, +7 difference. 13 tries against.


2017 6N: won 3, 14 tries, 122 for, 118 against (60 of which were 1 injury hit shocking performance), +4. 12 tries (7 in aforementioned injury hit shocker)

2018: won 2 so far, 9 tries, 72 for and 101 against, currently -29. 11 tries against.

Vern left a very solid base behind and in his last two 6N bar the England game we were competitive away from home. Under O'Halloran we were playing a decent style of rugby.

I felt 2017 was a step up from 2016. I couldn't honestly say I believe we are further forward than we were last year rather than England clearly regressing for example. And to me that's dissapointing.

On another note. Every single year after 2010 we have had the 5th best defence. We are not improving on that front. Yet there's more chance of EiE lining up in the second row than Taylor getting sacked.

Arguably Taylor's first year or two were the best as while we conceded a few, we scored a lot of interceptions or turnovers.

Having said that I think our defence after the Wales game has been decent.

I would be in the reasonably positive camp this six nations. The wales game was a massive missed opportunity and it hasnt gone as well as I dreamed but it has retained my faith that we are going in the right direction and will have some success over the next few years. Just hope we can really string it together at some point

Scotland have been far too inconsistent to be true challengers here. I don't think anyone south of the equator would see them as easy-beats, but at the same time, I think there have been some key work-ons exposed in the losses.

I'd say the opening-round beat-down from Wales was a very important fixture for your boys, where we saw the fragility of the Scottish gameplan shown up. They really need to learn how to consistently impose themselves on the game to be championship material - i.e., learn how to win in spite of any shitty play, shitty luck, etc. You do that, and making the semis in 2019 at least isn't too far-fetched.

Cameo wrote:Arguably Taylor's first year or two were the best as while we conceded a few, we scored a lot of interceptions or turnovers.

Having said that I think our defence after the Wales game has been decent.

I would be in the reasonably positive camp this six nations. The wales game was a massive missed opportunity and it hasnt gone as well as I dreamed but it has retained my faith that we are going in the right direction and will have some success over the next few years. Just hope we can really string it together at some point

The thing is, it is now a long term trend that we are consistently 5th best defence in the 6N. Even giving Wales 18-20 points rather than 34 still leaves us 5th best this year (all be it with Italy to play).

It is still (other than line out) the thing we need to improve most.

Can't argue with that. I think we are particularly bad at making first up tackles one on one - moreso than any other top side. We do have a fantastic scramble defence to cover for it but if we fixed the former the ship would be a lot tighter.

We also seem susceptible to dogs legs and opposition teams seem to make real headway if they can get the ball wide quickly and attack the space on our flanks - we don't drift fast enough.

One positive in defence- Gray and Rambo are making more dominant tackles than we have done previously.

I think Toony gets a pretty solid B+ for his first season in charge. Yes plenty of mistakes, esp in defence, but plenty of good stuff too, and I dont mean "showing potential" I mean good solid well crafted attacking rugby.

We play a high risk high reward game plan, and a lot of our key personnel aren't used to it from their clubs, so its going to take a while for it all to gel, and while it does good teams are going to exploit opportunities against us. The Wales game was a big loss, not just on the scoreboard but looking at the players and hopefully making them take a long look at themselves. I was living in Dublin one of those times SCW and England came looking for a slam/championship amd lost. SCW said in his interview after that he just wanted his guys to realize how good they were and how good they could be. Somehow he got that message thru as that England team never looked back. Well if GT can get that same message thru to this Scotland squad, they are gonna fly. Its such a young team, but already with plenty of experience, and they seem like they have a great attitude toward getting better. I'm really positive about what levels they could get to in the coming years if they keep their shit together and avoid injury.

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Enough with that Donny. Make that your last sensible post today.

OptimisticJock wrote:Enough with that Donny. Make that your last sensible post today.

It very nearly came back to bite me on the arse

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I think overall I'd give this 6N a 6.5 out of ten.

We have plenty of potential and the future should be bright but in many ways we haven't improved from the last 6N. Which is frustrating.

Last year we beat a good team (Ireland), a team that feels about our level (Wales) and beat Italy easily. This year we beat a poor England but for historical reasons was a good win, beat a team that feels close to is in France but struggled badly v Italy.

At least ireland didnt humiliate us at home. Dunno whats happened to england this 6n but they are being schooled right now. We'll finish 3rd at this rate?

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Despite playing 2 games in the comp where we were absolutely shite, and in 1 other in which we blew a whole load of chances, we've equalled our best finish. While that says a lot about the other teams as well, it still represents an advance on previous years imo

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So we finish 3rd which is a decent placing, but I am unsure how I feel about it after the AIs, probably disappointment which is weird after 3 wins. A fair few encouraging signs but some worrying bits too.

Same wins and losses but less points and tries scored and more points conceded than 2017. That's a shame as I think this year's championship has been weaker overall.

It's really good to see us have some consistency in championships though; 2 wins in 16 and 3 the last two years.

You lot aren't wrong but we really are capable of so much more. C+ for me. Weak pass. Actually competing with Wales or Ireland could have pushed that up to a strong B. Putting Italy and England to the sword well up to an A.

While the results have been good (for us) the performances have been absolutely shocking for the most part IMO. I do not think we have gotten better as a tournament has gone on which is concerning.

I think the home/away mindset just became so evident as the tournament that it was a distraction. I’m actually more positive now having reflected on it a bit.

Wales was a joke. We jizzed our pants before even getting to first base, but hopefully a lesson was learned.

Ireland was a bad result, but we created a whole load of chances that would have changed the game. We just executed them horrendously. It was a much better, if still massively flawed, game.

Today was not what I wanted to see, but it may be something the team needed. If Italy folded we would have learned nothing. They played well though and we had to fight to get a win away from home against a team who saw an opportunity/weakness. It was ugly and it did raise a whole load of questions about the quality of specific players, but I think for the team it may be important.

I don't think you can say you hope a lesson was learned RE Wales when they did the same thing against Ireland (to a lesser extent) and against Italy (close to being as bad if not worse).

My issue is we seem to have gotten better throughout the tournament and then gotten rapidly worse again. A bell curve of performances if you will which concerns me greatly.

The win against England is the anomaly in those performances/results - not the bad performances which are far more common.

When did they travel for the Italy this match?