RugbyRebels

Now we have three decent No.8s (once Billy is back to fitness) is there a case for being selectorially flexible with this berth depending on opposition and weather conditions, especially given our first choice flankers of Robshaw and Underhill both play quite tight in their respective positions?

In other words in a rain drenched war of attrition in February, Billy’s hard yards carrying comes into its own however, in sunny weather over in Italy or France (are these home or away games in 2018 6 Nations? ) then the much pacier, distributive, wide runnng talents of Hughes or Simmonds should give them priority over Billy for the 8 berth (assuming Robshaw and Underhill are on the flanks)?

jngf wrote:Now we have three decent No.8s

Four. Don’t forget Itoje.

Arguing there are conditions that don't suit Billy Vunipola is akin to saying there are conditions that don't suit the bowling of Malcolm Marshall. If you've an absurd threat who's one of the standout players then pick 'em

Yeah, not sure what conditions there are where Billy couldn't be used.

Thirded. Pick Billy and work from there.

If it's raining and horrendous, maybe consider Hughes at 6 perhaps? Since it's unlikely to be such an open game, and another big carrier could help.

Aye. Can’t imagine quite how bad Billy’s form would have to be to consider this.

Raggs wrote:If it's raining and horrendous, maybe consider Hughes at 6 perhaps? Since it's unlikely to be such an open game, and another big carrier could help.

Needs to take care of the ball a lot better as a general thought, though not sure if you are being serious anyway.

Do we select the team half an hour before kick off in any case?

Just close the roof. Gatland 1 v 0 jngf.

I'd guess that Billy's vulnerability to injury will be the only determining factor in selection management. If he's fit he plays. If not, Hughes. I'd guess further that we'll see Billy 60% of the time if we are lucky. Eddie will probably want to do everything he can to get Billy on the pitch for the important games and manage him carefully. I doubt he'll be selective beyond that.

Agreed with most; we've got one of the best #8s in the world, if he's fit, then the only excuse for not playing him, is squad rotation.

Which Tyler wrote:Agreed with most; we've got one of the best #8s in the world, if he's fit, then the only excuse for not playing him, is squad rotation.

You’ll need to clarify. Dors thinks you’re talking about Hughes.

Mellsblue wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:Agreed with most; we've got one of the best #8s in the world, if he's fit, then the only excuse for not playing him, is squad rotation.

You’ll need to clarify. Dors thinks you’re talking about Hughes.

Bloody hell, I've already said he'll probably only play 40% of games.

I agree that Billy is a ‘must pick’ if fit. However, given his recent injury record, I do think we need to consider more tactical flexibility with our 8s.

Apart from Hughes (and Morgan who won’t be in consideration), our other options at 8 are lighter, more mobile options and I think jngf is suggesting that we need to develop alternative game plans that better suit the likes of Simmonds, Clifford and Mercer.

Even if Billy is fit, I think it would be advantageous to have dynamic options from the bench that are able to bring a different style to the last quarter of a match. Imagine being run over by Billy for an hour and then having someone like Simmonds’ pace to deal with.

Sam Skinner will be in the mix come the 6ns

p/d wrote:Sam Skinner will be in the mix come the 6ns

At 8?

Mellsblue wrote:

p/d wrote:Sam Skinner will be in the mix come the 6ns

At 8?

Backrow cover from bench. But can see Exeter developing him as an 8.

p/d wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

p/d wrote:Sam Skinner will be in the mix come the 6ns

At 8?

Backrow cover from bench. But can see Exeter developing him as an 8.

I think they’ve decided he’s a lock. Probably wrong.

Mellsblue wrote:

p/d wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: At 8?

Backrow cover from bench. But can see Exeter developing him as an 8.

I think they’ve decided he’s a lock. Probably wrong.

If he plays at lock he'll soon be in the England backrow

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

p/d wrote:
Backrow cover from bench. But can see Exeter developing him as an 8.

I think they’ve decided he’s a lock. Probably wrong.

If he plays at lock he'll soon be in the England backrow

I’ve been really impressed with Skinner this season. I doesn’t really make much difference but I see him as a 6 who can cover lock whereas I’d see Itoje and Lawes as locks who can cover 6.

To be honest, I’d regard Skinner as ‘one to watch’ with the potential to get a lot better but I’d have Wilson and Armand ahead of him at 6 every day of the week.

jngf wrote:Now we have three decent No.8s (once Billy is back to fitness) is there a case for being selectorially flexible with this berth depending on opposition and weather conditions, especially given our first choice flankers of Robshaw and Underhill both play quite tight in their respective positions?

In other words in a rain drenched war of attrition in February, Billy’s hard yards carrying comes into its own however, in sunny weather over in Italy or France (are these home or away games in 2018 6 Nations? ) then the much pacier, distributive, wide runnng talents of Hughes or Simmonds should give them priority over Billy for the 8 berth (assuming Robshaw and Underhill are on the flanks)?

Robshaw and Underhill play tight, but neither are really tight carriers of a sort that escapes the need for Billy, as we've seen this autumn. And if I've got a fully fit back row of Robshaw, Underhill & Vunipola and am looking for a player to drop in exchange for a speedy Hooper-esque player, it won't be Vunipola. Even on a sunny day, I want Vunipola there for good front foot ball. Nobody else provides it like he does.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if you told me I could guarantee the form and fitness of any one England player to the end of the next World Cup, it would be Billy Vunipola. There are no circumstances I can imagine wanting to play another man ahead of him.

Peat wrote:

jngf wrote:Now we have three decent No.8s (once Billy is back to fitness) is there a case for being selectorially flexible with this berth depending on opposition and weather conditions, especially given our first choice flankers of Robshaw and Underhill both play quite tight in their respective positions?

In other words in a rain drenched war of attrition in February, Billy’s hard yards carrying comes into its own however, in sunny weather over in Italy or France (are these home or away games in 2018 6 Nations? ) then the much pacier, distributive, wide runnng talents of Hughes or Simmonds should give them priority over Billy for the 8 berth (assuming Robshaw and Underhill are on the flanks)?

Robshaw and Underhill play tight, but neither are really tight carriers of a sort that escapes the need for Billy, as we've seen this autumn. And if I've got a fully fit back row of Robshaw, Underhill & Vunipola and am looking for a player to drop in exchange for a speedy Hooper-esque player, it won't be Vunipola. Even on a sunny day, I want Vunipola there for good front foot ball. Nobody else provides it like he does.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if you told me I could guarantee the form and fitness of any one England player to the end of the next World Cup, it would be Billy Vunipola. There are no circumstances I can imagine wanting to play another man ahead of him.

This. He suits our gameplan, gives us immense go forward, and hasn't, match fit, been anything other than consistently excellent under Eddie.