RugbyRebels

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:And the DUP did indeed kill the deal. Whether anyone wants to challenge May now remains to be seen, clearly she was offering to breach all kind of red lines.

It'd be nice of course to have an election for Christmas

I'm sure I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Theresa May is basically what would've happened if Nicola Murray had eventually become Prime Minister like she'd had ambitions to.

I had to google that. Film and TV is not a strong round for me in a pub quiz

cashead wrote:

Digby wrote:And the DUP did indeed kill the deal. Whether anyone wants to challenge May now remains to be seen, clearly she was offering to breach all kind of red lines.

It'd be nice of course to have an election for Christmas

I'm sure I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Theresa May is basically what would've happened if Nicola Murray had eventually become Prime Minister like she'd had ambitions to.

Now let’s practice walking with a box again. The mind boggles, but she was still a better option than Leadsom.

Digby wrote:And it's over to the DUP to show what they want more, the chance to jump up and down and say we're pure, or a billion pounds. No sense asking if the DUP are mad as either way the DUP are more than a little bonkers. My guess is they'll hate the deal but take it as opposing it will just delay its arrival and remove from them a billion pounds, and then they can get back to safely hating the gays.

Scotland and London already calling for the same deal as Northern Ireland, to remain in the customs union and single market I imagine rather than to have the DUP sent over

And people thought brexit would be easy. I don’t think that Britain splitting up was what the take back control mob were thinking of when they voted leave.

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:And it's over to the DUP to show what they want more, the chance to jump up and down and say we're pure, or a billion pounds. No sense asking if the DUP are mad as either way the DUP are more than a little bonkers. My guess is they'll hate the deal but take it as opposing it will just delay its arrival and remove from them a billion pounds, and then they can get back to safely hating the gays.

Scotland and London already calling for the same deal as Northern Ireland, to remain in the customs union and single market I imagine rather than to have the DUP sent over

And people thought brexit would be easy. I don’t think that Britain splitting up was what the take back control mob were thinking of when they voted leave.

They werent thinking at all. It was blindingly freaking obvious what would happen, its getting closer and closer and they still dont care.

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Donny osmond wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:And it's over to the DUP to show what they want more, the chance to jump up and down and say we're pure, or a billion pounds. No sense asking if the DUP are mad as either way the DUP are more than a little bonkers. My guess is they'll hate the deal but take it as opposing it will just delay its arrival and remove from them a billion pounds, and then they can get back to safely hating the gays.

Scotland and London already calling for the same deal as Northern Ireland, to remain in the customs union and single market I imagine rather than to have the DUP sent over

And people thought brexit would be easy. I don’t think that Britain splitting up was what the take back control mob were thinking of when they voted leave.

They werent thinking at all. It was blindingly freaking obvious what would happen, its getting closer and closer and they still dont care.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

The Brexiters remind me of the chap from the religious parable who died in the flood, questions the Lord about it and the Lord says but I sent you a boat and a.... essentially they're still not remotely moved from their stance of we're pure and right, and they're ignoring the rising waters

The story of Darren Grimes, AggregateIQ and the 700k gift to Leave isn't going away.

Digby wrote:First there were nearly 60 brexit impact studies then there were not, then there were 58 but they couldn't be discussed, then they were in some way morphed into onto document but supplied heavily redacted which MPs in both leave and remain camps thought an abuse of Parliament, and today David Davies sent a junior minister to explain his failings. Which has left us with David Davies being told he's been summoned himself as he can't hope to get out of his public bollocking.

I suspect we're going to find out the government has a number of documents, and they weren't released not as they're remotely worth classifying but because they're laughably inept.

And we're back to there were none. Which also means when Cabinet took the decision (and aren't we lucky that in taking back control for democracy Parliament was spared such trouble) that Brexit means Brexit and we had to leave the customs union and single market they did so without receiving advice on the economic impact, okay people are sick of listening to experts but this isn't even pretending to be professional

In addition to Davis being exposed as a liar today we have this from LK at the BBC - Hammond confirms publicly what everyone in SW1 knew privately - cabinet is still to have THE big discussion about the kind of Brexit they ultimately think we should have - DUP row has hugely ramped up the pressure for it to happen.

So, 18 months on from the referendum, the Govt have -
- Not agreed their policy on the final deal
- Not commissioned a single impact assessment on Brexit
- Not even discussed what they want out of it.

I think i may have said before that we are being led by charlatans, fools and liars.

I do genuinely fear for our democracy, as its in the hands of rank incompetents, lacking principle and honesty.

fivepointer wrote:In addition to Davis being exposed as a liar today we have this from LK at the BBC - Hammond confirms publicly what everyone in SW1 knew privately - cabinet is still to have THE big discussion about the kind of Brexit they ultimately think we should have - DUP row has hugely ramped up the pressure for it to happen.

So, 18 months on from the referendum, the Govt have -
- Not agreed their policy on the final deal
- Not commissioned a single impact assessment on Brexit
- Not even discussed what they want out of it.

I think i may have said before that we are being led by charlatans, fools and liars.

I do genuinely fear for our democracy, as its in the hands of rank incompetents, lacking principle and honesty.

It's like reading a fictional political thriller, only it's too far fetched. Can't wait to see how it ends.

London Welsh were better run than this government, though both had some plain daft assumptions

cashead wrote:

fivepointer wrote:In addition to Davis being exposed as a liar today we have this from LK at the BBC - Hammond confirms publicly what everyone in SW1 knew privately - cabinet is still to have THE big discussion about the kind of Brexit they ultimately think we should have - DUP row has hugely ramped up the pressure for it to happen.

So, 18 months on from the referendum, the Govt have -
- Not agreed their policy on the final deal
- Not commissioned a single impact assessment on Brexit
- Not even discussed what they want out of it.

I think i may have said before that we are being led by charlatans, fools and liars.

I do genuinely fear for our democracy, as its in the hands of rank incompetents, lacking principle and honesty.

When was the departure from the EU meant to happen by again?

15 months or so, but with a transition period

So we have agreement to move onto trade talks after all sides agreed to a vague statement which doesn't set out the practical positions for the border in Ireland, all quite unusual for politicians. Hurrah!

David Allan Green, who is really sharp on these things, says,

"Today was the day (in all probability) that both "No Brexit" and "No Deal Brexit" died.

Now just which form of a deal-based Brexit: Norway or Canada.

And the scope of length of the transition: Brexit in name only for a while after Brexit day"

Soft brexit here we come.

Norwegian Brexit was always the only option without ditching the Good Friday agreement and risking a restart to the Troubles.
For the first time (to me) it looks like "no deal" has been challenged for likelihood though.

It remains alarming that so many decisions on how things'll work in practice are being kicked down the line. They've waffled on again about providing certainty but in too many areas we just don't know what's happening, so are we out of the customs union and single market or not, are we out and pretending alignment is different to harmonisation, if we're out what happens when the EU amends their regulatory framework and we're still tied to them in some or all respects, and where we don't agree what's the avenue that'll be sought to resolve such disagreements.

fivepointer wrote:David Allan Green, who is really sharp on these things, says,

"Today was the day (in all probability) that both "No Brexit" and "No Deal Brexit" died.

Now just which form of a deal-based Brexit: Norway or Canada.

And the scope of length of the transition: Brexit in name only for a while after Brexit day"

Soft brexit here we come.

What do you consider soft Brexit? I would consider Canada as hard Brexit. Norway/EFTA as soft Brexit.

Mellsblue wrote:

fivepointer wrote:David Allan Green, who is really sharp on these things, says,

"Today was the day (in all probability) that both "No Brexit" and "No Deal Brexit" died.

Now just which form of a deal-based Brexit: Norway or Canada.

And the scope of length of the transition: Brexit in name only for a while after Brexit day"

Soft brexit here we come.

What do you consider soft Brexit? I would consider Canada as hard Brexit. Norway/EFTA as soft Brexit.

has to be the Norway model.

fivepointer wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

fivepointer wrote:David Allan Green, who is really sharp on these things, says,

"Today was the day (in all probability) that both "No Brexit" and "No Deal Brexit" died.

Now just which form of a deal-based Brexit: Norway or Canada.

And the scope of length of the transition: Brexit in name only for a while after Brexit day"

Soft brexit here we come.

What do you consider soft Brexit? I would consider Canada as hard Brexit. Norway/EFTA as soft Brexit.

has to be the Norway model.

Agreed. What makes you think Norway is where we are heading?

fivepointer wrote:David Allan Green, who is really sharp on these things, says,

"Today was the day (in all probability) that both "No Brexit" and "No Deal Brexit" died.

Now just which form of a deal-based Brexit: Norway or Canada.

And the scope of length of the transition: Brexit in name only for a while after Brexit day"

Soft brexit here we come.

That’s a distinct possibility. Provided that the mouth foaming eurosceptics don’t undermine May to the point where she has to do a u turn. I’m hoping that she has told to wind their necks in and support her or else usher in a Corbyn government. I doubt it though.

So... We'll all be okay, just as long as May doesn't do a U-turn...
Erm...
I'm not feeling terribly confident here

Looks like a pretty nice deal between the EU and Japan. Presumably it will be a properly regulated free trade deal.
Twist the knife, why don't you.

cashead wrote: She could always just do another snap election to strengthen her bargaining position.

Not long to find out of MPs consider they have any backbone over the government's hopes to offer the house a largely meaningless meaningful vote on Brexit. I've two hopes here, first that the house does vote to ensure it has an actual vote, and then that the house doesn't play stupid games over such vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42346192

The government has been narrowly defeated in a key vote on its Brexit bill after a rebellion by 12 Tory MPs.


In a blow to Prime Minister Theresa May, MPs voted to give Parliament a legal guarantee of a vote on the final Brexit deal struck with Brussels.


...

Got to wonder given the numbers why they didn't just do what was being asked of them, poor effort from the government supposing they appointed whips who can count