RugbyRebels

Puja wrote:

Numbers wrote:

Cameo wrote:
I'm sure most of the Springboks were in a training camp last time too. Not quite so many but the main contenders.

When was the last time the Lions lost a tour game outside of New Zealand? Genuine question. Don't remember any but could have been one between the tests.

They lost a game against the Brumbies on the Aus tour.

Although in fairness, that was also the game where Gatland called up three of England's 2nd XV from the Argentina tour and chucked them in with all the players he'd decided would not be involved with the tests with zero preparation. Or, to put it another way - Billy Twelvetrees, British and Irish Lions starter.

Puja

thirty-six would have been a star in either of these last 2 matches. Only player to fail miserably was the patently unfit Mako Vunipola. He isn't going to cut it at altitude and should come home now

Which Tyler wrote:

Cameo wrote:Funny tours these now. Apart from the New Zealand tours, the Lions face no real challenges until the tests. I think that makes it much harder to play yourself into the team unless the person ahead of you plays themselves out of it.

To be fair, this is not a normal tour - the SA national team has had to bubble, meaning that none of the top 50-60 SA players are available for their franchises. Normally the Sharks would be packed with Springboks looking to stake a claim in the test side (and hurt a few Lions) - now they barely reach the level of "opposed training run" opposition.

more Boks players play outside SA these days. That plus the bubble means their teams are not close t what they once were; add in a decision to field kids and 3rd team stringers and they would struggle to beat Dragons on a good day. Remind me who won the Rainbow Cup, who they beat and what the margin was

Big D wrote:

Puja wrote:

Numbers wrote:
They lost a game against the Brumbies on the Aus tour.

Although in fairness, that was also the game where Gatland called up three of England's 2nd XV from the Argentina tour and chucked them in with all the players he'd decided would not be involved with the tests with zero preparation. Or, to put it another way - Billy Twelvetrees, British and Irish Lions starter.

Puja

That's true. They drew with the emerging Boksnon thr last SA tour and had a couple of very narrow wins IIRC.

Fair enough - has felt like most warmup games have been a matter of impressing in easy wins but maybe I'm misremembering.

Potentially much closer to a 1st choice Lions pack out tomorrow huge opportunity for Sutherland

Ouch. That is a strong looking Lions team. That might get messy.

Buggaluggs wrote:Ouch. That is a strong looking Lions team. That might get messy.

I think it’s a shame that the lions tour is effectively 5-6 games against diddys and 4 proper tests. It makes sense in the professional era but it becomes very difficult to push your way in if the coach has a pre 15 picked.

This tour I actually don’t think Gatland has a clue on his starting 15. It could easily be dominated by scots and on the same breath have the mish only. Covid could play a huge roll in selection as well.

whatisthejava wrote:I think it’s a shame that the lions tour is effectively 5-6 games against diddys and 4 proper tests. It makes sense in the professional era but it becomes very difficult to push your way in if the coach has a pre 15 picked.

This tour I actually don’t think Gatland has a clue on his starting 15. It could easily be dominated by scots and on the same breath have the mish only. Covid could play a huge roll in selection as well.

Gatland will have had a starting 15/23 in his head from the off. And while the opposition has been really poor, it hasn't always been that much different
So yes, very difficult to play yourself in. I'm not a big Gatland fan, anything but, but TBF to him he will make big decisions and drop someone if he thinks they are obvious. BoD for example.

Thus while its hard to play yourself in, its much easier to play yourself out. So far I think only one player has managed that

Russell out

Out of the game or the tour? Can't tell if Smith is just there as a precaution or Russel is done.

Mikey Brown wrote:Out of the game or the tour? Can't tell if Smith is just there as a precaution or Russel is done.

Out until week of 1st test. There goes his tour really.

That's a shame. Didn't think Biggar was good today so there was a bit of a chance for him.

Very sloppy today with some comical mistakes (Daly's in particular) but obviously some serious fire power and ran away with it once up against 14.

From a Scottish point of view, they went well. Sutherland was strong. Watson had less chance to run about than previously but did well (his passing seems to have improved). VDM beating tacklers for fun but also seeming a bit more rounded - interception aside. Harris decent too.

By not playing, I think Price helped his chances of a bench spot as well.

More widely, think the second row looks a bit average. I think Hill could get penalised every second ruck and Beard is okay but not really an obvious test lion. Henderson and Itoje should start but less depth after that.

I have a theory that Gatland is the decision maker in the forwards.

Navidi, beard are hardly like for like.

I don’t think Gatland picks Marcus smith in a 100 years but is about a close a match to Russell then anyone else

Big audition for Harris on Wednesday. The SA "A" team is effectively a full international line up.

A good test for the Lions and one that can go for or against the Scottish guys.

If Sinckler goes well v Kitchsoff then it could push Fagerson out of the 1st test squad contention or vice versa. If Curry has a stormer it would be hard to leave him out the test team etc.

Cameo wrote:That's a shame. Didn't think Biggar was good today so there was a bit of a chance for him.

Very sloppy today with some comical mistakes (Daly's in particular) but obviously some serious fire power and ran away with it once up against 14.

From a Scottish point of view, they went well. Sutherland was strong. Watson had less chance to run about than previously but did well (his passing seems to have improved). VDM beating tacklers for fun but also seeming a bit more rounded - interception aside. Harris decent too.

By not playing, I think Price helped his chances of a bench spot as well.

Yep, unless Davies plays out of his skin in the next game he plays then {Price will bench, Davies was awful on the weekend, especially his kicking.

Numbers wrote:

Cameo wrote:That's a shame. Didn't think Biggar was good today so there was a bit of a chance for him.

Very sloppy today with some comical mistakes (Daly's in particular) but obviously some serious fire power and ran away with it once up against 14.

From a Scottish point of view, they went well. Sutherland was strong. Watson had less chance to run about than previously but did well (his passing seems to have improved). VDM beating tacklers for fun but also seeming a bit more rounded - interception aside. Harris decent too.

By not playing, I think Price helped his chances of a bench spot as well.

Yep, unless Davies plays out of his skin in the next game he plays then {Price will bench, Davies was awful on the weekend, especially his kicking.

I haven't been Price's biggest fan but I think as much as Davies was poor that Price has been pretty decent which is nice to see.

In terms of matchday test squads. I think Fagerson is the one that could be definitively squeezed out after tomorrow. Furlong is inked in to the 23 and if Sinckler shows up really well, particularly in the scrum then it isn't looking good for Fagerson (the opposite applies if Sinckler struggles and Fagerson does well of course).

Sutherland has looked the best LHP on tour so far. Jones has a good opportunity tomorrow.
Watson had a quieter game last time but still looked good. To be fair Curry is class and is capable of putting up a good game tomorrow.
Price has looked the best 9 on tour but Murray hasn't really started in SA. Would hope Price is at least the bench option.
Finn, time to come home, with no warm up games for him to be involved in he wont be in the test squad so no point risking worsening his achilles.
13 is an odd one. Henshaw is still injured, Daly has looked good but untested and Harris similarly has looked good but untested. Harris now has an opportunity to put in a performance against effectively the test side.
Duhan and Hogg are in an extremely competitive position group. A back three with any 3 of Hogg, WIlliams, Watson, Adams and Duhan will be strong. Even though LRZ hasn't quite reached the levels of others he wouldn't be a bad option either.

Going to be tight for many of them and I do wonder whether we are heading to a 6/2 bench split with Farrell at 12 and Daly in the 23 shirt.

Agree with pretty much all of that Big D

I think a lack of flexibility may be an Achilles heel for us.

Hamish - he's a 7 and if he doesn't start I don't expect him to bench.
Duhan - same, he's exclusively a winger so if he isn't starting I can't see him getting in
Hogg - I know he's covered 10 in emergencies for us but with Watson, Williams or Daly all able to play 15 I think Hogg misses out if he doesn't start at FB
Harris - played 12 recently but I can't see him being one of the 2 on the bench so again it's start or bust

You can make really strong arguments for all of them being starters but if they don't start I don't think they fulfil the bench requirements.

As has been said on this board a few times recently, the team selection is fascinating on this tour. The starting XV really is hair splitting stuff

Hoggy to start at 13 and cover all of the outside back positions allowing Garland to pick a bench with 6 forwards and Farrell/Biggar on the bench. You know it makes sense

switchskier wrote:Hoggy to start at 13 and cover all of the outside back positions allowing Garland to pick a bench with 6 forwards and Farrell/Biggar on the bench. You know it makes sense

You know, if you start with Daly or Hogg on the pitch, then the door is open to a 7:1 split with Gareth Davies on the bench to cover 9/wing...

Puja

Puja wrote:

switchskier wrote:Hoggy to start at 13 and cover all of the outside back positions allowing Garland to pick a bench with 6 forwards and Farrell/Biggar on the bench. You know it makes sense

You know, if you start with Daly or Hogg on the pitch, then the door is open to a 7:1 split with Gareth Davies on the bench to cover 9/wing...

Puja

Daly had a bit of a run out at 9 the other day...

And was the best 9 on show

Mikey Brown wrote:

Puja wrote:

switchskier wrote:Hoggy to start at 13 and cover all of the outside back positions allowing Garland to pick a bench with 6 forwards and Farrell/Biggar on the bench. You know it makes sense

You know, if you start with Daly or Hogg on the pitch, then the door is open to a 7:1 split with Gareth Davies on the bench to cover 9/wing...

Puja

Daly had a bit of a run out at 9 the other day...

8-0 bench it is then, with Simmonds providing backs cover in case of injury.

Puja

Going by today's game I'd say Price and Sutherland should start but can't see anyone bar Murray at 9.

Fagerson not in test team.

I reckon Curry will get the test 7 shirt.

Harris will depend on Henshaw and the back 3 guys are up in the air.