RugbyRebels

morepork wrote: Cracker!

Racists and classist, fine work

Shouldn't you be painting your caravan or something?

morepork wrote:Puja. RRs very own undercover Cracker!

Confused.gif

Puja

You've tapped into the vein of angry white man outrage at taking money from hard working hedge fund babies. I employed the pejorative term for this demographic. I apologise if any sensitive white people took offence.

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:It feels like the one thing America could really unite on is they don't want to continue getting fucked in every orifice for the benefit of the millionaires and billionaires.

I have to say I don't agree. There is a sizeable number of American who believe in The American Dream - that anyone can make it here, no matter who you are or who your parents were - and have corrupted it to believe that success is a function of working hard and thus rich people deserve their wealth. They'd look down on a Lord or Duke, but a businessman like Trump or Bloomberg? They're part of The American Dream and any attempt to tax them or get them to contribute is jealousy from those who haven't made it against those that have.

Someone once said that Americans are perpetually in a state of being "not a millionaire - yet". Wealth taxes might not touch them now, but they're outraged at the very that you would attempt to tax the wealth of a hard earning, red-blooded, American capitalist, cause in their heart of hearts, they think that potentially that could be them if they got the breaks.

Puja

The corruption of capitalism is the #1 problem in the world today. Without it, we'd have better healthcare, better equipped to cope with the Mexican piss water virus, we'd have better support for those who find themselves in any difficulty, and we'd have a far more equitable society, while allowing more and more people to become self-made millionaires.

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:It feels like the one thing America could really unite on is they don't want to continue getting fucked in every orifice for the benefit of the millionaires and billionaires.

I have to say I don't agree. There is a sizeable number of American who believe in The American Dream - that anyone can make it here, no matter who you are or who your parents were - and have corrupted it to believe that success is a function of working hard and thus rich people deserve their wealth. They'd look down on a Lord or Duke, but a businessman like Trump or Bloomberg? They're part of The American Dream and any attempt to tax them or get them to contribute is jealousy from those who haven't made it against those that have.

Someone once said that Americans are perpetually in a state of being "not a millionaire - yet". Wealth taxes might not touch them now, but they're outraged at the very that you would attempt to tax the wealth of a hard earning, red-blooded, American capitalist, cause in their heart of hearts, they think that potentially that could be them if they got the breaks.

Puja

The corruption of capitalism is the #1 problem in the world today. Without it, we'd have better healthcare, better equipped to cope with the Mexican piss water virus, we'd have better support for those who find themselves in any difficulty, and we'd have a far more equitable society, while allowing more and more people to become self-made millionaires.

Without corruption we would indeed be doing better, but we'll have corruption whatever the system

Capitalism left to itself is amoral, as in devoid of any morals. That is why it needs regulations.

However it is still the best economic model available. Just not the best social model, unless you are a libertarian.

This said, any program that grants benefits to the poor, paid by the less poor if not the rich, is a redistribution of wealth. It levels the field a little bit, but without any merit based criteria. Here it would be called socialism, unless it has already a name (social security for example).

I prefer the old Swedish angle: the rich contributing more taxes so that the poor can be taken care of is part of the implicit social contract. It is not a burden, but a social duty for the rich to pay high taxes, and the other side of the medal is that in this way they stave off social unrest which is a significant benefit.

Personally, I am ok with more taxes to secure Medicare for all (or most at least). I do not think I am in the majority.

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:

Puja wrote:
I have to say I don't agree. There is a sizeable number of American who believe in The American Dream - that anyone can make it here, no matter who you are or who your parents were - and have corrupted it to believe that success is a function of working hard and thus rich people deserve their wealth. They'd look down on a Lord or Duke, but a businessman like Trump or Bloomberg? They're part of The American Dream and any attempt to tax them or get them to contribute is jealousy from those who haven't made it against those that have.

Someone once said that Americans are perpetually in a state of being "not a millionaire - yet". Wealth taxes might not touch them now, but they're outraged at the very that you would attempt to tax the wealth of a hard earning, red-blooded, American capitalist, cause in their heart of hearts, they think that potentially that could be them if they got the breaks.

Puja

The corruption of capitalism is the #1 problem in the world today. Without it, we'd have better healthcare, better equipped to cope with the Mexican piss water virus, we'd have better support for those who find themselves in any difficulty, and we'd have a far more equitable society, while allowing more and more people to become self-made millionaires.

Without corruption we would indeed be doing better, but we'll have corruption whatever the system

I meant the corruption of the model, not individual corruption.

The US is fucked. We're fucked. 4 more years are nailed on.

I can't see Biden beating Trump. An incoherent, dribbling wreck may make for a good GOP President, but Biden is not someone I think the Dems could spin into 1600 Pensylvania Avenue. Trump has no idea on anything and can barely string sentences together, but I think he'd have Biden for breakfast without breaking much sweat from his Twitter routune. I'd struggle to imagine Sanders faring any better, even though I think he is the best option still available. Would like to have seen Beto take on Trump. Now that would be a TV debate worth tuning into.

Instead, lets just bask in the nothing to worry about coronavirus which will get better in time for voting...or not.

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:
The corruption of capitalism is the #1 problem in the world today. Without it, we'd have better healthcare, better equipped to cope with the Mexican piss water virus, we'd have better support for those who find themselves in any difficulty, and we'd have a far more equitable society, while allowing more and more people to become self-made millionaires.

Without corruption we would indeed be doing better, but we'll have corruption whatever the system

I meant the corruption of the model, not individual corruption.

Then you've a problem convincing people across Europe of your argument, still less in America. Not that capitalism is perfect but that the other models look and have proved so much worse.

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:

Without corruption we would indeed be doing better, but we'll have corruption whatever the system

I meant the corruption of the model, not individual corruption.

Then you've a problem convincing people across Europe of your argument, still less in America. Not that capitalism is perfect but that the other models look and have proved so much worse.

OK, I have to explain, obviously.

I love capitalism. It works. But it relies on the central premise of: NO MONOPOLIES!

We don't have that anymore. We have giant corps that make themselves richer by simply buying their competitors because there's no way to refuse and survive. These companies make disgusting amounts of cash for people who provide nothing for the consumer at all.

That sounds like a broken system to me.

It's meant to be that anyone can create a business and become a millionaire, not that any millionaire can become a billionaire!

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:
I meant the corruption of the model, not individual corruption.

Then you've a problem convincing people across Europe of your argument, still less in America. Not that capitalism is perfect but that the other models look and have proved so much worse.

OK, I have to explain, obviously.

I love capitalism. It works. But it relies on the central premise of: NO MONOPOLIES!

We don't have that anymore. We have giant corps that make themselves richer by simply buying their competitors because there's no way to refuse and survive. These companies make disgusting amounts of cash for people who provide nothing for the consumer at all.

That sounds like a broken system to me.

It's meant to be that anyone can create a business and become a millionaire, not that any millionaire can become a billionaire!

It doesn't for me mean the system is broken, it just means corruption is rife, and the people in charge typically benefit from the corruption leading to a less beneficial outcome. Along the lines of there's noting wrong with wanting your centres to pass, indeed it's good idea, but if you then pick Tindall and Noon you'll get a less beneficial outcome

Digby wrote:

Stom wrote:

Digby wrote:
Then you've a problem convincing people across Europe of your argument, still less in America. Not that capitalism is perfect but that the other models look and have proved so much worse.

OK, I have to explain, obviously.

I love capitalism. It works. But it relies on the central premise of: NO MONOPOLIES!

We don't have that anymore. We have giant corps that make themselves richer by simply buying their competitors because there's no way to refuse and survive. These companies make disgusting amounts of cash for people who provide nothing for the consumer at all.

That sounds like a broken system to me.

It's meant to be that anyone can create a business and become a millionaire, not that any millionaire can become a billionaire!

It doesn't for me mean the system is broken, it just means corruption is rife, and the people in charge typically benefit from the corruption leading to a less beneficial outcome. Along the lines of there's noting wrong with wanting your centres to pass, indeed it's good idea, but if you then pick Tindall and Noon you'll get a less beneficial outcome

I disagree, they've changed the system. There's no-one looking after it at all. When does corruption stop being corruption and start being the system?

And you're not going to change anything without massive change on a global level. It needs progressive governments in power across the entire world.

And, for me, it's insane that more parties aren't running this...

As the concept of: Capitalism is for everyone, not just the few. is something people could get behind. With promotions on small business setup, minor reductions in income tax, closing of benefit loopholes, and higher corp tax, plus an effective marketing system, you could win an election with a landslide (provided you didn't have anyone toxic leading it).

Again you'll have corruption whatever the system, that's not a feature of capitalism, nor of a specific version of capitalism

Absolutely perfect.

I'd additionally like to know, and this is hardly just the USA, why we're seeing so many very expensive demand side solutions for a supply side issue, bar there's not a lot to be done and they'd rather be seen doing something?

Stom wrote:And, for me, it's insane that more parties aren't running this...

As the concept of: Capitalism is for everyone, not just the few. is something people could get behind.

For the many, not the few?

Puja

Puja wrote:

Stom wrote:And, for me, it's insane that more parties aren't running this...

As the concept of: Capitalism is for everyone, not just the few. is something people could get behind.

For the many, not the few?

Puja

Well yeah, but making sure to frame it as capitalism. If you don’t, you’ll get labeled a commie

Tiny, tiny little man. Have we had enough yet 'Murrica?

morepork wrote:Tiny, tiny little man. Have we had enough yet 'Murrica?

Is he actually giving CDC a kicking in the middle of a pandemic? What the actual fuck?!

Of course for all we're mocking Trump, and deservedly so, he hasn't been plumbing the depths Iran has over this. Obviously lots of people in America would like to promote the clergy over science as they do in Iran, but there is something of a gap still

Digby wrote:Of course for all we're mocking Trump, and deservedly so, he hasn't been plumbing the depths Iran has over this. Obviously lots of people in America would like to promote the clergy over science as they do in Iran, but there is something of a gap still

You can have both!

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/11/81455047 ... virus-cure

It is being reported that the slow response of the gummint to implementing aggressive testing and follow up for THE VIRUS is that Jared Kushner has been tasked with researching the issue, which he is doing by way of a Facebook group he had his brother's father in law (who is a physician) set up.


I shit you not.


https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/1 ... ook-127941

Has he not heard about the CDC? Seriously, if listened to and given money they've actually got a few people there who know what they're doing. This is a repeat pattern though, when presented with what he considered evidence about Biden's dodgy dealings in Ukraine team Trump responded in a manner that suggested they're unaware of the FBI, which they might like to know is actually a rather large and well funded police resource