Snap General Election called

[Stom]

I suspect the answers are to either pay more in taxation to look after the elderly, or those who otherwise need care, or people revert back to looking after their own families in the home (as far as is reasonably possible given some very complex needs). Since we live in a country where we are encouraged to be mobile to support the workplace, the second option is rarely available, so its got to be the first one. I seem to recall some people talking about how unfair it is to pay for someones care when you might not need it yourself, which is a strange argument as you may never need the NHS that much. Until you do and want it there.

As I saidn, we are going to have to pay a lot more.
System reform, pop health, money. All needed.

Quite. I seem to recall that conversation ending badly for Theresa May when it was raised a few years ago. Who will have the guts to revisit it? I certainly don't think the younger generation should be hammered to look after pensioners, so its either a tax for everyone for its somehow linked to property (which seems obvious but you still need a pot of money for when there isnt a convenient house to sell to cover the costs).

Or...and this may be radical...linked to corporate profit? Say, like, an actual system for taxing corporations.

[Banquo]

As I saidn, we are going to have to pay a lot more.
System reform, pop health, money. All needed.

Quite. I seem to recall that conversation ending badly for Theresa May when it was raised a few years ago. Who will have the guts to revisit it? I certainly don't think the younger generation should be hammered to look after pensioners, so its either a tax for everyone for its somehow linked to property (which seems obvious but you still need a pot of money for when there isnt a convenient house to sell to cover the costs).

Or...and this may be radical...linked to corporate profit? Say, like, an actual system for taxing corporations.

Explain more? Do you want corp tax raised higher than 25% ?

[Stom]

Quite. I seem to recall that conversation ending badly for Theresa May when it was raised a few years ago. Who will have the guts to revisit it? I certainly don't think the younger generation should be hammered to look after pensioners, so its either a tax for everyone for its somehow linked to property (which seems obvious but you still need a pot of money for when there isnt a convenient house to sell to cover the costs).

Or...and this may be radical...linked to corporate profit? Say, like, an actual system for taxing corporations.

Explain more? Do you want corp tax raised higher than 25% ?

Yes. And linked to profit for the entity doing business in the country, so any payments made to parent/sister companies abroad that are not specifically for raw materials do not reduce your booked profit.

Yes, I know we need radical pension reform before anything in my little hobby horse can come to pass, but I feel like it’s the only way to avoid the end of this civilization. Yes, I’d go that far.

[Banquo]

Or...and this may be radical...linked to corporate profit? Say, like, an actual system for taxing corporations.

Explain more? Do you want corp tax raised higher than 25% ?

Yes. And linked to profit for the entity doing business in the country, so any payments made to parent/sister companies abroad that are not specifically for raw materials do not reduce your booked profit.

Yes, I know we need radical pension reform before anything in my little hobby horse can come to pass, but I feel like it’s the only way to avoid the end of this civilization. Yes, I’d go that far.

By how much? I was surprised at how 'much' corp tax contributes to the tax take.

[Stom]

Explain more? Do you want corp tax raised higher than 25% ?

Yes. And linked to profit for the entity doing business in the country, so any payments made to parent/sister companies abroad that are not specifically for raw materials do not reduce your booked profit.

Yes, I know we need radical pension reform before anything in my little hobby horse can come to pass, but I feel like it’s the only way to avoid the end of this civilization. Yes, I’d go that far.

By how much? I was surprised at how 'much' corp tax contributes to the tax take.

Of course corp tax contributes a lot. Wages are extremely low compared to output for everyone outside the c-suite, and even then, some directors get paid silly low sums considering the risks they take as directors of multi million businesses.

We need to redress that balance: push companies to spend a higher percentage of their revenue on r&d and payroll, rather than feeding shareholders.

The aim should be a very LOW percentage of tax coming from corp tax, with salary tax making up a much higher percentage simply because wages are higher

[Sandydragon]

On the other hand, we have disadvantaged ourselves thanks to Brexit so we no longer have ease of access to the EU. We also have just put up our corporation tax to 25%, which is higher than many other countries. That's not attractive to international businesses looking where in Europe they can set up their new enterprises. The increase may not have an immediate effect, but it will be a consideration when the likes of Toyota etc look at their balance sheets and decide whether the UK is a place to continue producing certain components, or whether its easier to move to the mainland of Europe (or Ireland).

This isn't the time to put off potential international investment. Whilst Amazon and others do cause a lot of anger over the amount of tax they pay, or don't pay, to the UK government, trying to punish the entire system isn't the way to redress that. I take your point Stom about R&D and it's a good one. But using taxation as a way to push companies towards that route is something to consider when we are less of a basket case.

[Mellsblue]

https://researchbriefings.files.parliam ... P-8513.pdf
See page 6.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -expensing

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... enterprise

[Mikey Brown]

On the other hand, we have disadvantaged ourselves thanks to Brexit so we no longer have ease of access to the EU. We also have just put up our corporation tax to 25%, which is higher than many other countries. That's not attractive to international businesses looking where in Europe they can set up their new enterprises. The increase may not have an immediate effect, but it will be a consideration when the likes of Toyota etc look at their balance sheets and decide whether the UK is a place to continue producing certain components, or whether its easier to move to the mainland of Europe (or Ireland).

This isn't the time to put off potential international investment. Whilst Amazon and others do cause a lot of anger over the amount of tax they pay, or don't pay, to the UK government, trying to punish the entire system isn't the way to redress that. I take your point Stom about R&D and it's a good one. But using taxation as a way to push companies towards that route is something to consider when we are less of a basket case.

When does that actually become viable though? Surely we'll never reach that point (at the expense of actual tax payers) as long as there are cheaper alternatives?

[morepork]

Corporate welfare is not a sound basis for community. 25%. The poor babies.

[Banquo]

Yes. And linked to profit for the entity doing business in the country, so any payments made to parent/sister companies abroad that are not specifically for raw materials do not reduce your booked profit.

Yes, I know we need radical pension reform before anything in my little hobby horse can come to pass, but I feel like it’s the only way to avoid the end of this civilization. Yes, I’d go that far.

By how much? I was surprised at how 'much' corp tax contributes to the tax take.

Of course corp tax contributes a lot. Wages are extremely low compared to output for everyone outside the c-suite, and even then, some directors get paid silly low sums considering the risks they take as directors of multi million businesses.

We need to redress that balance: push companies to spend a higher percentage of their revenue on r&d and payroll, rather than feeding shareholders.

The aim should be a very LOW percentage of tax coming from corp tax, with salary tax making up a much higher percentage simply because wages are higher

Funnily enough I was surprised that it was only the fourth highest contributor to the tax take

[Sandydragon]

On the other hand, we have disadvantaged ourselves thanks to Brexit so we no longer have ease of access to the EU. We also have just put up our corporation tax to 25%, which is higher than many other countries. That's not attractive to international businesses looking where in Europe they can set up their new enterprises. The increase may not have an immediate effect, but it will be a consideration when the likes of Toyota etc look at their balance sheets and decide whether the UK is a place to continue producing certain components, or whether its easier to move to the mainland of Europe (or Ireland).

This isn't the time to put off potential international investment. Whilst Amazon and others do cause a lot of anger over the amount of tax they pay, or don't pay, to the UK government, trying to punish the entire system isn't the way to redress that. I take your point Stom about R&D and it's a good one. But using taxation as a way to push companies towards that route is something to consider when we are less of a basket case.

When does that actually become viable though? Surely we'll never reach that point (at the expense of actual tax payers) as long as there are cheaper alternatives?

Is there a tipping point per se or more likely a point where we can be seen as an attractive place for international corporations to be, despite a higher tax rate? Currently, we are not.

[Puja]

Rishi Sunak has just sold what little integrity he has left by announcing a "grooming gangs taskforce" because "political correctness has stopped us from weeding out vile criminals who prey on children and young women." It's playing directly to the Tommy Robinson conspiracy theory that roving gangs of paedophile Muslims prey on white children and operate with impunity because the police are frightened of being called racist, when the evidence is that "grooming gangs" barely exist and even more rarely involve anyone but white people. Absolutely disgusting to be leaning into racist conspiracy theories to try and buy votes.

Even Keir "I support trans rights, but not too much, depends, who's asking" Starmer has managed to get up the gumption to point out that it's racist bollocks and, when even he makes a stand against something that might mean easy votes, you know it must be despicable.

Puja

[Puja]

Oh, and of course Bravermann is pouring the petrol on the fire:

Ms Braverman said while the fault lay with the perpetrators for "carrying out heinous and vile acts of depravity", there was also "a wilful turning of the blind eye" among authorities.

She said that in towns around the country, "vulnerable white girls living in troubled circumstances have been abused, drugged, raped, and exploited" by networks of gangs of rapists, which she claimed were "overwhelmingly" made up of British-Pakistani males.

Ms Braverman added that "cultural sensitivities" and concerns about "being called bigoted" had played a role in high-profile abuse scandals including in Rochdale and Rotherham.

I'm sure mainstreaming right-wing tropes about people of colour regularly preying on white girls will turn out fine. It's not like it's directly from the KKK playbook or anything.

Puja

[morepork]

What.....cunts.

p.s. keep up the corporate welfare. Its worked out so well thus far. It's fucking pathetic how we pander to these leeches.

[Sandydragon]

Rishi Sunak has just sold what little integrity he has left by announcing a "grooming gangs taskforce" because "political correctness has stopped us from weeding out vile criminals who prey on children and young women." It's playing directly to the Tommy Robinson conspiracy theory that roving gangs of paedophile Muslims prey on white children and operate with impunity because the police are frightened of being called racist, when the evidence is that "grooming gangs" barely exist and even more rarely involve anyone but white people. Absolutely disgusting to be leaning into racist conspiracy theories to try and buy votes.

Even Keir "I support trans rights, but not too much, depends, who's asking" Starmer has managed to get up the gumption to point out that it's racist bollocks and, when even he makes a stand against something that might mean easy votes, you know it must be despicable.

Puja

The problem is that precise scenario really did happen. But I agree it’s a useful dog whistle

[Puja]

Rishi Sunak has just sold what little integrity he has left by announcing a "grooming gangs taskforce" because "political correctness has stopped us from weeding out vile criminals who prey on children and young women." It's playing directly to the Tommy Robinson conspiracy theory that roving gangs of paedophile Muslims prey on white children and operate with impunity because the police are frightened of being called racist, when the evidence is that "grooming gangs" barely exist and even more rarely involve anyone but white people. Absolutely disgusting to be leaning into racist conspiracy theories to try and buy votes.

Even Keir "I support trans rights, but not too much, depends, who's asking" Starmer has managed to get up the gumption to point out that it's racist bollocks and, when even he makes a stand against something that might mean easy votes, you know it must be despicable.

Puja

The problem is that precise scenario really did happen. But I agree it’s a useful dog whistle

It happened exactly once and the inquiry into the investigation revealed very little evidence that "fears about being seen as racist" had any effect on police actions. However, the narrative about "Muslim grooming gangs" has taken over, helped largely by the press making a massive deal out of one instance when none of the other cases of all-white "grooming gangs" were seen as newsworthy.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

That’s incorrect. There’s three high profile examples at least. There are also plenty of groomers who aren’t Pakistani men which is why Braverman is talking shyte again.

But this is a vile crime and denying awkward facts doesn’t help anyone to fight it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 9.html?amp

The experience of Weir in assessing the scale of the problem suggests that nervousness over race was an issue for both South Yorkshire Police and Rotherham council. But there were a lot of reasons why this wasn’t investigated properly

[Son of Mathonwy]

Wow. It's not exactly the 'almost all British-Pakistani' grooming gang Braverman is telling us (well, Daily Mail readers) all about.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... se-inquiry

[morepork]

If the law can't handle the nuances of a diverse society, they shouldn't be in public service. So sick of wankers hitting the immigrant panic button in lieu of informed policy.

[Puja]

The flood of corruption stories from the Conservatives has almost become a background drone. Who even remembers that Rishi Sunak has been investigated 5 times for different offences before this latest one, all of which in better times would've resulted in a letter of resignation.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

Wow. It's not exactly the 'almost all British-Pakistani' grooming gang Braverman is telling us (well, Daily Mail readers) all about.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... se-inquiry

Nope. She is cherry picking to suit her agenda. Not exactly new or unique, but the dog whistle element is dangerous.

[Which Tyler]

Can we call this fascism yet?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nest-moret

MEPs condemn Suella Braverman over arrest of French publisher

Ernest Moret was interrogated by UK counter-terrorist police when he arrived in London on Tuesday

Suella Braverman has been condemned by a group of MEPs over the arrest in London of a French publisher who was interrogated by counter-terrorist police about his political views and “anti-government” contacts.

...

ARTICLE CONTINUES

[morepork]

Yes. But you might be questioned by the filth. The "centre right" does seem particularly extreme in their actions. Suella Braverman is a syphilitic boil of a public servant.

[Which Tyler]

Can we call it fascism yet?
https://news.sky.com/story/judges-to-lo ... s-12861559
Government policy no longer restricted by the law

[Which Tyler]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-64467038

And Raab is gone - with about as much grace as could be expected from him (AKA, none at all, and not even the decency to actually follow through with the very first paragraph of his resignation letter)