Trump

[Which Tyler]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45969100

Bombs sent to the Clintons, Obama, Soros, CNN and a few democrat sensors/candidates.

Obviously nothing at all with Trump defining the opposition, and the neutral press as being the enemy of the people, traitors, deserving of death etc etc.

But the left are the "uncivil" bunch... when faced with actual treason, violence, sexual assaults, corruption etc (ironically, Fox had to interrupt a piece on exactly that in order to comment on the CNN bomb)

[Zhivago]

It does, but how liable is a subsidiary for a criminal act (or civil legal action) that happens elsewhere in the wider organisation? Does the U.K. operation control operations or have any impact on how the data is used and managed or is it just here for advertising purposes?

I don’t actually know the answer to that, but that is part of the fun in prosecuting multinationals.

But my main point here is that a unilateral approach to this won’t be effective, unless a country adopts th Chinese approach and blocks a host of websites, which wouldn’t be acceptable here.

If they won't obey the law, block the website.

So, the U.K. passes a law which demands that Facebook et al are treated as proper media outlets. Facebook allows posts which contain fake news and are prosecuted. They stick 2 fingers up and are blocked (assuming that would be effective).

Is there a freedom of speech issue here possibly?

I’m not ideologically opposed to what you’re suggesting, these sites should be accountable and there should be some regulation. But that legislation needs a graduated approach to be effective and that won’t happen with a unilateral approach.

I agree that the approach should be graduated. Start with fines, then block if still not complying. We block Pirate Bay etc because they are illegal, same should go for any online website operating in the uk, big or small.

[Puja]

I'm genuinely intrigued here. My "gut" says self certification is not good, but the rest of me says "why?".

So what are the negative points to self certification?

I think that's the thing - self-certification feels like it might be prone to people fucking about and so it feels instinctively wrong, but when you sit and think about it, it's very hard to come up with a plausible scenario where it would cause a problem.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45969100

Bombs sent to the Clintons, Obama, Soros, CNN and a few democrat sensors/candidates.

Obviously nothing at all with Trump defining the opposition, and the neutral press as being the enemy of the people, traitors, deserving of death etc etc.

But the left are the "uncivil" bunch... when faced with actual treason, violence, sexual assaults, corruption etc (ironically, Fox had to interrupt a piece on exactly that in order to comment on the CNN bomb)

I personally, as a white person, would like to publically disavow these terrorists and state that I don't support these attacks. Since every Muslim's expected to do so, it seems only fair.

And today, Trump has claimed the attacks are because of the hostility of the media and called for them to reduce the tension. Nice.

I do like that the bomber was so incompetent that not a single one of the packages exploded. It does show the intelligence levels of these people.

Puja

[Stom]

I'm genuinely intrigued here. My "gut" says self certification is not good, but the rest of me says "why?".

So what are the negative points to self certification?

I think that's the thing - self-certification feels like it might be prone to people fucking about and so it feels instinctively wrong, but when you sit and think about it, it's very hard to come up with a plausible scenario where it would cause a problem.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45969100

Bombs sent to the Clintons, Obama, Soros, CNN and a few democrat sensors/candidates.

Obviously nothing at all with Trump defining the opposition, and the neutral press as being the enemy of the people, traitors, deserving of death etc etc.

But the left are the "uncivil" bunch... when faced with actual treason, violence, sexual assaults, corruption etc (ironically, Fox had to interrupt a piece on exactly that in order to comment on the CNN bomb)

I personally, as a white person, would like to publically disavow these terrorists and state that I don't support these attacks. Since every Muslim's expected to do so, it seems only fair.

And today, Trump has claimed the attacks are because of the hostility of the media and called for them to reduce the tension. Nice.

I do like that the bomber was so incompetent that not a single one of the packages exploded. It does show the intelligence levels of these people.

Puja

Plus, you can send a bomb to Hilary. You can send a bomb to Obama. You can even send a bomb to CNN. But to then send a bomb to Robert De Niro?!?!

[Digby]

Where can I read about the bombs being a democratic false flag campaign? The truth is surely out there

[Puja]

Where can I read about the bombs being a democratic false flag campaign? The truth is surely out there

You joke, but it's already floated on conservative talk shows, which means a maximum of 1 day before Trump references it.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I couldn’t tell if that was a joke or not by Digby. An awful lot of people were shouting false flag the moment it happened.

It’s weird when Ben Shapiro manages to be a voice of reason saying that if that is your first response to this situation, you’re a bit deranged.

[Digby]

Where can I read about the bombs being a democratic false flag campaign? The truth is surely out there

You joke, but it's already floated on conservative talk shows, which means a maximum of 1 day before Trump references it.

Puja

Sadly there's crazy on all sides, even if the Republican party seems to do crazy rather better a worrying number of republican senators got death threats after the recent supreme court vote

[Digby]

Yesterday whilst running in a local park I came upon a gate, nothing unusual about that it's been there ages, but on the other side was a dog. I didn't open the gate immediately as the dog's owner was a distance behind and had the dog slipped through an open gate they might I supposed not have been delighted. As the dog owner arrived he went to speak and I assumed would either say thanks or there was no need to wait it'd have been fine to let the dog past the gate. Instead he said Satan has revealed himself to us through the media, that it’s plain to see, and that whilst Satan has been utterly defeated it's not something anybody should want nor is Satan stupid

Clearly some people just see the world differently

[Which Tyler]

[Which Tyler]

Shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46002549

Thoughts and prayers and all that.
I'm guessing were not supposed to politicise this highly political act

[Digby]

No prayers as that would be rather meaningless on my part, but it's another awful shooting, heard four dead on the news at six but that could well be wrong

America seemingly under assault from Trumperists, terrorists and guns now

[WaspInWales]

Apparently, they just needed people with assault weapons inside the synagogue on standby.

Things would've been different then.

[WaspInWales]

Yesterday whilst running in a local park I came upon a gate, nothing unusual about that it's been there ages, but on the other side was a dog. I didn't open the gate immediately as the dog's owner was a distance behind and had the dog slipped through an open gate they might I supposed not have been delighted. As the dog owner arrived he went to speak and I assumed would either say thanks or there was no need to wait it'd have been fine to let the dog past the gate. Instead he said Satan has revealed himself to us through the media, that it’s plain to see, and that whilst Satan has been utterly defeated it's not something anybody should want nor is Satan stupid

Clearly some people just see the world differently

...and you didn't report him to the RSPCA?

[Digby]

Could be a good drinking game in the offing, how often during the trip to Pittsburgh will Trump or WH statements reference Jared and Ivanka are Jewish to illustrate the oval office racist isn't a racist?

[Digby]

Should other political leaders be willing to appear alongside Trump in response to this recent shooting?

I can well understand not wanting to given how odious he seems, but he is the President and the country is supposedly bigger than Trump. There's no obvious right answer here imo, but my preference is for people to appear alongside the President, and even if Trump continues to politicise the occasion refuse to stoop to such levels

[Sandydragon]

Should other political leaders be willing to appear alongside Trump in response to this recent shooting?

I can well understand not wanting to given how odious he seems, but he is the President and the country is supposedly bigger than Trump. There's no obvious right answer here imo, but my preference is for people to appear alongside the President, and even if Trump continues to politicise the occasion refuse to stoop to such levels

Sometimes for the greater good such actions are important. Sadly US politics seems too tribal now for such shows of unity.

[WaspInWales]

Can't help feeling all this negative Trump and pro-blue wave reporting is just going to fail...again.

I'd love to be wrong, but the media seems to have a counter-effect on reality.

Republican candidates are being ripped a new one by their own families in adverts across the US...Steve West, Paul Gosar and Adam Laxalt have all been taken to the cleaners by educated family members in recent weeks and months. Will it make a difference?

I honestly don't think so.

People know a cunt when they see one. Trump has always been a well known cunt in the decades leading to him standing for the Presidential nomination/election, the media hammered home the fact the he's a cunt, but he graduated with flying honours.

Here's the rub...some people don't like to be told what to think.

I'm sure that if the media laid off things, the masses would vote the GOP out in record time, but many voters are possibly facing the following scenario:
"Hmm well X is clearly a misogynist, racist scum bag but if CNN are telling me he's that bad, well X must be good!"

So, the GOP scrapes through as a result of the media publishing negative, but true stories about the GOP and Trump and the GOP just pass it off as 'fake news' from the 'fake media'.

It's almost as if the GOP and the liberal media were working with eachother!

[Digby]

Then it'll be the will of the people. Though I think people are correct in talking about Trump's base,he doesn't have the potential to appeal to many moderates, frankly to many Republicans.

So,can Democrats turn out the vote and can they show a reason to vote Democrat beyond not being Trump?

[Mikey Brown]

Can't help feeling all this negative Trump and pro-blue wave reporting is just going to fail...again.

I'd love to be wrong, but the media seems to have a counter-effect on reality.

Republican candidates are being ripped a new one by their own families in adverts across the US...Steve West, Paul Gosar and Adam Laxalt have all been taken to the cleaners by educated family members in recent weeks and months. Will it make a difference?

I honestly don't think so.

People know a cunt when they see one. Trump has always been a well known cunt in the decades leading to him standing for the Presidential nomination/election, the media hammered home the fact the he's a cunt, but he graduated with flying honours.

Here's the rub...some people don't like to be told what to think.

I'm sure that if the media laid off things, the masses would vote the GOP out in record time, but many voters are possibly facing the following scenario:
"Hmm well X is clearly a misogynist, racist scum bag but if CNN are telling me he's that bad, well X must be good!"

So, the GOP scrapes through as a result of the media publishing negative, but true stories about the GOP and Trump and the GOP just pass it off as 'fake news' from the 'fake media'.

It's almost as if the GOP and the liberal media were working with eachother!

Ugh. Yeah, pretty much agree. It seems the quantity of awful people and awful behaviour from the GOP has somehow diluted their overall negative perception with a lot of their base.

If they’re being told everyone is a horrible cunt then it must just be liberal, snowflake, leftie propaganda. So they behave like it.

[Puja]

Can't help feeling all this negative Trump and pro-blue wave reporting is just going to fail...again.

I'd love to be wrong, but the media seems to have a counter-effect on reality.

Republican candidates are being ripped a new one by their own families in adverts across the US...Steve West, Paul Gosar and Adam Laxalt have all been taken to the cleaners by educated family members in recent weeks and months. Will it make a difference?

I honestly don't think so.

People know a cunt when they see one. Trump has always been a well known cunt in the decades leading to him standing for the Presidential nomination/election, the media hammered home the fact the he's a cunt, but he graduated with flying honours.

Here's the rub...some people don't like to be told what to think.

I'm sure that if the media laid off things, the masses would vote the GOP out in record time, but many voters are possibly facing the following scenario:
"Hmm well X is clearly a misogynist, racist scum bag but if CNN are telling me he's that bad, well X must be good!"

So, the GOP scrapes through as a result of the media publishing negative, but true stories about the GOP and Trump and the GOP just pass it off as 'fake news' from the 'fake media'.

It's almost as if the GOP and the liberal media were working with eachother!

Ugh. Yeah, pretty much agree. It seems the quantity of awful people and awful behaviour from the GOP has somehow diluted their overall negative perception with a lot of their base.

If they’re being told everyone is a horrible cunt then it must just be liberal, snowflake, leftie propaganda. So they behave like it.

It's the cognitive dissonance of the two party system as well. People identify by their party, because of the broad values they have/purport to have/used to have and the fact that people like them also identify with that party. So therefore when their party does something awful, even against the values that they support it for or against your interests, it's easier for the brain to find reasons why it's not actually that bad than it is to change opinion and change their tribe.

It was evolutionarily beneficial, in that it facilitates group bonding and reduces flighty behaviour, but it's fucking annoying nowadays, especially as politicians are actively using it by targetting the other side as the enemy.

Puja

[morepork]

I’ve been in NZ for the last 12 days fly fishing, kayaking fiords and surf casting by the light of bonfires on deserted beaches and when I get to civilization I read all of the bullshit going on back in the USA. I’m wondering why it is I am going back, but at least I cast my postal ballot before I left. Fuck my life.

These midterms are about racism and xenophobia for a disturbing amount of American voters, but in the long term need to highlight the issue of entitled wealthy people dominating public resources by trampling over civil rights. I am not really sure the media are getting that across and I am worried. Meanwhile Goldman Sachs gets busted yet again for massive financial fraud, but it’s all Trump Trump Trump. When wil the fact he is irrelevant to policy making be made manifest?

I’m off to binge drink and flirt with German tourists.

[Digby]

At least the orange one has confirmed when he said they'd shoot children throwing rocks he meant arrest. Though he did also say they'd be arrested a very long time, whether he means arrested, prosecuted and sentenced for a long time or actually held without charges being brought remains unclear. And of course what Trump considers a long time is perhaps open to wild speculation and too a movable feast

I would add on a personal level if you walk up to an armed force and throw rocks at them I don't have much sympathy if they shoot you, essentially don't poke bears

[Puja]

I don't think anyone just chooses to walk up to men carrying guns and decides, "Hey, you know what would be fun? Throwing rocks!" It's eiher extreme provocation or desperation that provokes it.

I can't imagine any scenario in which the US Army, a good chunk of whom will be Trump supporters and wound up by claims that this caravan is here to steal jobs, rape and murder, and spread Middle Eastern terrorism from South America, would abuse, insult, threaten and manhandle these exhausted and desperate refugees fleeing from countries where men with guns regularly terrorised their families, can you? No chance of a flashpoint at all - I can't see this end in up in a fucking disaster and gunning down unarmed civilians, at all.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

At least the orange one has confirmed when he said they'd shoot children throwing rocks he meant arrest. Though he did also say they'd be arrested a very long time, whether he means arrested, prosecuted and sentenced for a long time or actually held without charges being brought remains unclear. And of course what Trump considers a long time is perhaps open to wild speculation and too a movable feast

I would add on a personal level if you walk up to an armed force and throw rocks at them I don't have much sympathy if they shoot you, essentially don't poke bears

The yanks once used an AC130 gunship to defuse a riot in Iraq, so anything is possible.

There is potential here for a real disaster, but hopefully the commander will have some common sense.

Then again....