RugbyRebels

Donny osmond wrote:The quantity and quality of hypocrisy that will​ be on display over the next 18 months will be impressive, albeit not in a good way.

It's been said before and it'll be said again of politics that 'If you can’t take their money, drink their whisky, screw their women, and vote against them anyway you don’t belong'

Hurry up and fuck the country up so I can have a laugh FFS.

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:Is everyone assuming even the SNP think they mayn't win any referendum right now and as such as seeking Westminster denying them the chance to hold a vote?

In my opinion, Sturgeon would fall off her chair if May agreed to hold a referendum.

That might be what NS is counting on, but TM really holds all the cards right now, at least as far as controlling the set up to the next indyref.

If she's wise, she'll make it a key point if agreeing to one that things like iScotland entry requirements to the EU, issue of iScot debt, pension payments are all pre-negotiated. Easy to justify, by saying that the scottish people should have all facts at our disposal. And it would take away all opportunity for any lies, from either side, to gather pace.

Donny osmond wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:Is everyone assuming even the SNP think they mayn't win any referendum right now and as such as seeking Westminster denying them the chance to hold a vote?

In my opinion, Sturgeon would fall off her chair if May agreed to hold a referendum.

That might be what NS is counting on, but TM really holds all the cards right now, at least as far as controlling the set up to the next indyref.

If she's wise, she'll make it a key point if agreeing to one that things like iScotland entry requirements to the EU, issue of iScot debt, pension payments are all pre-negotiated. Easy to justify, by saying that the scottish people should have all facts at our disposal. And it would take away all opportunity for any lies, from either side, to gather pace.

You mean, like they did for Brexit?

"if agreeing to one that things like iScotland entry requirements to the EU"
What does this mean? Why should she have any say in that?

I agree that the new yes Campaign should come up with a plan taking into account the current situation though.

Len wrote:Hurry up and fuck the country up so I can have a laugh FFS.

Pay attention, we're doing bang up job right now.

Donny osmond wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Digby wrote:Is everyone assuming even the SNP think they mayn't win any referendum right now and as such as seeking Westminster denying them the chance to hold a vote?

In my opinion, Sturgeon would fall off her chair if May agreed to hold a referendum.

That might be what NS is counting on, but TM really holds all the cards right now, at least as far as controlling the set up to the next indyref.

If she's wise, she'll make it a key point if agreeing to one that things like iScotland entry requirements to the EU, issue of iScot debt, pension payments are all pre-negotiated. Easy to justify, by saying that the scottish people should have all facts at our disposal. And it would take away all opportunity for any lies, from either side, to gather pace.

May is a rabbit in the headlights right now but the only Trump card she can play is time. Keep denying the SNP and their record in government will start to catch up with them eventually. There are a lot of people in Scotland who seem to think that Independence is their silver bullet.

Adder wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: In my opinion, Sturgeon would fall off her chair if May agreed to hold a referendum.

That might be what NS is counting on, but TM really holds all the cards right now, at least as far as controlling the set up to the next indyref.

If she's wise, she'll make it a key point if agreeing to one that things like iScotland entry requirements to the EU, issue of iScot debt, pension payments are all pre-negotiated. Easy to justify, by saying that the scottish people should have all facts at our disposal. And it would take away all opportunity for any lies, from either side, to gather pace.

You mean, like they did for Brexit?

"if agreeing to one that things like iScotland entry requirements to the EU"
What does this mean? Why should she have any say in that?

I agree that the new yes Campaign should come up with a plan taking into account the current situation though.

Sorry, unclear, I meant that she should e.g. approach the eu to ask what iScotlands entry requirements are. Not that UK had a say in that, the pre negotiation bit was for pensions, debt share, etc.

Article 50 should be triggered asap, and if Scotland are stupid enough to want independence and stay in the EU, Hadrians wall needs to be rebuilt, only bigger and better this time around.

Adder wrote:

BBD wrote:of course, fair point, but there is a lot of ground to make up and there would need to be a much harsher approach (very unpopular) with the way they deal with benefits for example.

Changing the whole way the country is run from a slightly independent Region to a fully independent Nation is not going to be easy indeed.

really? I'd have thought it is relatively straightforward for Scoland. It's got it's own system of law and education. It's got the civil service infrastructure from being part of the Uk and having its own parliament. It's got great traditions of administration as well, which is almost as important. It knows what an administration is supposed to look like and there will be plenty of people who'll be happy to go there from Westminster, for a fee. I think they'll have little difficulty from that perspective. Raising funds for a NHS and social care might be a completely different issue.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Adder wrote:

BBD wrote:of course, fair point, but there is a lot of ground to make up and there would need to be a much harsher approach (very unpopular) with the way they deal with benefits for example.

Changing the whole way the country is run from a slightly independent Region to a fully independent Nation is not going to be easy indeed.

really? I'd have thought it is relatively straightforward for Scoland. It's got it's own system of law and education. It's got the civil service infrastructure from being part of the Uk and having its own parliament. It's got great traditions of administration as well, which is almost as important. It knows what an administration is supposed to look like and there will be plenty of people who'll be happy to go there from Westminster, for a fee. I think they'll have little difficulty from that perspective. Raising funds for a NHS and social care might be a completely different issue.

As a case in point, after years of asking for more powers, specifically over tax, the UK govt agreed to move something like 15% of the payment and processing of welfare payments to Holyrood. Holyrood took one look at the complexity of it and said " no, we cant handle that, can you keep a hold of those powers until we're ready... maybe in 2020 we can look at taking them on". It would be laughable if it weren't so tragic.

Donny osmond wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Adder wrote: Changing the whole way the country is run from a slightly independent Region to a fully independent Nation is not going to be easy indeed.

really? I'd have thought it is relatively straightforward for Scoland. It's got it's own system of law and education. It's got the civil service infrastructure from being part of the Uk and having its own parliament. It's got great traditions of administration as well, which is almost as important. It knows what an administration is supposed to look like and there will be plenty of people who'll be happy to go there from Westminster, for a fee. I think they'll have little difficulty from that perspective. Raising funds for a NHS and social care might be a completely different issue.

As a case in point, after years of asking for more powers, specifically over tax, the UK govt agreed to move something like 15% of the payment and processing of welfare payments to Holyrood. Holyrood took one look at the complexity of it and said " no, we cant handle that, can you keep a hold of those powers until we're ready... maybe in 2020 we can look at taking them on". It would be laughable if it weren't so tragic.

Yes, this is what happened...

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Adder wrote:

BBD wrote:of course, fair point, but there is a lot of ground to make up and there would need to be a much harsher approach (very unpopular) with the way they deal with benefits for example.

Changing the whole way the country is run from a slightly independent Region to a fully independent Nation is not going to be easy indeed.

really? I'd have thought it is relatively straightforward for Scoland. It's got it's own system of law and education. It's got the civil service infrastructure from being part of the Uk and having its own parliament. It's got great traditions of administration as well, which is almost as important. It knows what an administration is supposed to look like and there will be plenty of people who'll be happy to go there from Westminster, for a fee. I think they'll have little difficulty from that perspective. Raising funds for a NHS and social care might be a completely different issue.

Yeah, youd think so but its not the case, the capability to deliver projects in the Scottish civil service is a known issue. They are recruiting to solve the issue but it will take time as the "expertise" needs to be migrated in, then change the culture and then start to gain traction in terms of actual change. It also has the halfway house to deal with right now of being a slightly independent region, negotiating and co-ordinating with Westminster and the civil service, whilst juggling the ever present issue of how much of a voice Scotland has in the process now and potentially in the future. throw the MSPs into the mix with their need to proclaim progress to the electorate and it will take a while to steady and then make progress. Funding it will be a nightmare given the current set up and strategy if they do go independent and are not willing to cut their cloth accordingly

Meanwhile, in Westminster, the UK Government continue to give lessons on what it means to be REALLY incompetent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 30626.html

Brexit Secretary David Davis has stunned MPs by admitting the Government has done no economic assessment of crashing out of the EU with ‘no deal’.

Giving evidence to MPs, Mr Davis insisted it was not possible to calculate the impact of the Brexit talks failing – adding: “I may be able to do so in about a year’s time.”
...
Mr Davis hinted no assessment of the Brexit options will be carried out, saying: “You don’t need a piece of paper with numbers on it to have an economic assessment.”

With idiots like this in charge, we're fucked.

Stones of granite wrote:Meanwhile, in Westminster, the UK Government continue to give lessons on what it means to be REALLY incompetent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 30626.html

Brexit Secretary David Davis has stunned MPs by admitting the Government has done no economic assessment of crashing out of the EU with ‘no deal’.

Giving evidence to MPs, Mr Davis insisted it was not possible to calculate the impact of the Brexit talks failing – adding: “I may be able to do so in about a year’s time.”
...
Mr Davis hinted no assessment of the Brexit options will be carried out, saying: “You don’t need a piece of paper with numbers on it to have an economic assessment.”

With idiots like this in charge, we're fucked.

Stunning.

Just moved my savings over to NZ. Good luck bois. The EU is going to chew you up and spit you out at the negotiating table.

Len wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:Meanwhile, in Westminster, the UK Government continue to give lessons on what it means to be REALLY incompetent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 30626.html

Brexit Secretary David Davis has stunned MPs by admitting the Government has done no economic assessment of crashing out of the EU with ‘no deal’.

Giving evidence to MPs, Mr Davis insisted it was not possible to calculate the impact of the Brexit talks failing – adding: “I may be able to do so in about a year’s time.”
...
Mr Davis hinted no assessment of the Brexit options will be carried out, saying: “You don’t need a piece of paper with numbers on it to have an economic assessment.”

With idiots like this in charge, we're fucked.

Stunning.

Just moved my savings over to NZ. Good luck bois. The EU is going to chew you up and spit you out at the negotiating table.

I came here in 1997 and had to pay $3.30 for £1.00.

I can't afford to go back.

Stones of granite wrote:Meanwhile, in Westminster, the UK Government continue to give lessons on what it means to be REALLY incompetent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 30626.html

Brexit Secretary David Davis has stunned MPs by admitting the Government has done no economic assessment of crashing out of the EU with ‘no deal’.

Giving evidence to MPs, Mr Davis insisted it was not possible to calculate the impact of the Brexit talks failing – adding: “I may be able to do so in about a year’s time.”
...
Mr Davis hinted no assessment of the Brexit options will be carried out, saying: “You don’t need a piece of paper with numbers on it to have an economic assessment.”

With idiots like this in charge, we're fucked.

David Davis is a fucking idiot. The only reason he is there is so he can piss out of the tent.

Sandydragon wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:Meanwhile, in Westminster, the UK Government continue to give lessons on what it means to be REALLY incompetent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 30626.html

Brexit Secretary David Davis has stunned MPs by admitting the Government has done no economic assessment of crashing out of the EU with ‘no deal’.

Giving evidence to MPs, Mr Davis insisted it was not possible to calculate the impact of the Brexit talks failing – adding: “I may be able to do so in about a year’s time.”
...
Mr Davis hinted no assessment of the Brexit options will be carried out, saying: “You don’t need a piece of paper with numbers on it to have an economic assessment.”

With idiots like this in charge, we're fucked.

David Davis is a fucking idiot. The only reason he is there is so he can piss out of the tent.

It would seem he's having problems with his flaps

FREE SCOTLAND !!

rowan wrote:FREE SCOTLAND !!

Actually, they cost a fortune. Especially since the crash in oil prices.

It is an interesting debate seeing one side argue for independence in a different union while the other side argue for freedom from a foreign union while remaining in another one.

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Adder wrote:It is be an interesting debate seeing one side argue for independence in a different union while the other side argue for freedom from a foreign union while remaining in another one.

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Ha, yep. I've thought the same.

Adder wrote:It is an interesting debate seeing one side argue for independence in a different union while the other side argue for freedom from a foreign union while remaining in another one.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Apart from the word "Union", they are not remotely the same thing.

Stones of granite wrote:

Adder wrote:It is an interesting debate seeing one side argue for independence in a different union while the other side argue for freedom from a foreign union while remaining in another one.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Apart from the word "Union", they are not remotely the same thing.

I agree. But that is not how the debate is going to go.

To make my position clear, being part French-part Scottish living in Bulgaria I have a positive attitude towards the EU. I also support scottish independence. I will not pretend to be unbiased. I do appreciate that both choices come with different risks and challenges.

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Adder wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

Adder wrote:It is an interesting debate seeing one side argue for independence in a different union while the other side argue for freedom from a foreign union while remaining in another one.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Apart from the word "Union", they are not remotely the same thing.

I agree. But that is not how the debate is going to go.

To make my position clear, being part French-part Scottish living in Bulgaria I have a positive attitude towards the EU. I also support scottish independence. I will not pretend to be unbiased. I do appreciate that both choices come with different risks and challenges.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

We blew it in 2014. Any opportunity now for leaving the UK will not happen until after the UK has left the EU, leaving us in a perilous position. The best we could hope for is a Norway-style association agreement, which, combined with an oil price recovery, wouldn't be a bad outcome, but the risks are enormous.

We blew it.

Stones of granite wrote:

Adder wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:
Apart from the word "Union", they are not remotely the same thing.

I agree. But that is not how the debate is going to go.

To make my position clear, being part French-part Scottish living in Bulgaria I have a positive attitude towards the EU. I also support scottish independence. I will not pretend to be unbiased. I do appreciate that both choices come with different risks and challenges.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

We blew it in 2014. Any opportunity now for leaving the UK will not happen until after the UK has left the EU, leaving us in a perilous position. The best we could hope for is a Norway-style association agreement, which, combined with an oil price recovery, wouldn't be a bad outcome, but the risks are enormous.

We blew it.

It sometimes feels like that.