RugbyRebels

General Zod wrote:What's the rule when they both ground it at the same time?

Surely if Hogg is touching it first he is in possession? I figured that is the only factor.

Mikey Brown wrote:

General Zod wrote:What's the rule when they both ground it at the same time?

Surely if Hogg is touching it first he is in possession? I figured that is the only factor.

This one wasn`t subject to review as I recall. Or was it.? Though did think it was worth a look..

Had a quick trawl through the laws re. try scoring.. Given the sudden (!) focus on the laws of the game..

Reminder from my ref. days that you can score a try in the in goal area by touching down, even if your feet/whole body is in touch, as long as you are NOT carrying the ball..
Can you imagine the Welsh reaction to that one..? Possibly a test for officials as well.?

Nope. Didn't go to the TMO despite Hogg signalling for it, which for some reason was laughed off. I'm not that sure about players being able to prompt TMO reviews but it seems that has been the precedent for a while now.

Mikey Brown wrote:

General Zod wrote:What's the rule when they both ground it at the same time?

Surely if Hogg is touching it first he is in possession? I figured that is the only factor.

I think the ref didn't look at it was because when Hogg chipped the ball he thought, like a lot of people, there is no way he'll get to that first. Not the first person to underestimate Hogg's speed.

22.15 Doubt about grounding
If there is doubt about which team first grounded the ball in the in-goal, play is re-started by a 5-metre scrum, in line with the place where the ball was grounded. The attacking team throws in the ball.

Finally sobered up and getting to watch the game back now and thoroughly enjoying it.

I already knew he was a fud, but what an utter cunt Dan Biggar is. A truly detestable prick.

General Zod wrote:What's the rule when they both ground it at the same time?

try

at the time , i thought it was a try, at home watching it i thought it was a try and i thought Lacey was an arse for not checking it, although i think Scotland should have made more of it.

Anyone else think Scott Williams tackle on Seymour was slightly eye (neck area)?

Adder wrote:Anyone else think Scott Williams tackle on Seymour was slightly eye (neck area)?

I've seen it said elsewhere that it could have been a penalty try had Seymour not got the ball down. I believe there was a similar incident in a Pro12 game and a penalty try was awarded. Seymour did well to get it down, from my seat at the game we'd all thought he fucked it.

Chunks Baws wrote:

Adder wrote:Anyone else think Scott Williams tackle on Seymour was slightly eye (neck area)?

I've seen it said elsewhere that it could have been a penalty try had Seymour not got the ball down. I believe there was a similar incident in a Pro12 game and a penalty try was awarded. Seymour did well to get it down, from my seat at the game we'd all thought he fucked it.

I can't understand how it could be anything else plus a yellow card. Williams clearly targeted the head the get Seymour into touch. It seems that, because the touchdown was good it should be ignored.

The other thing that irritated me was the Rhys Webb pulling back incident. Everyone focussed completely on that, and no one commented on Tipuric going past the ruck and taking out Ali Price to open the channel that allowed Webb to make the break in the first place. Cynical stuff, and another clear yellow in my book.

At the end of the day we had Lacey as a ref, still managed to win and won convincingly. That makes it truly magical.

whatisthejava wrote:

General Zod wrote:What's the rule when they both ground it at the same time?

try

at the time , i thought it was a try, at home watching it i thought it was a try and i thought Lacey was an arse for not checking it, although i think Scotland should have made more of it.

I couldn't find simultaneous grounding in the laws? Closest I can see is:

22.15 Doubt about grounding
If there is doubt about which team first grounded the ball in the in-goal, play is re-started by a 5-metre scrum, in line with the place where the ball was grounded. The attacking team throws in the ball.

Big D wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:

General Zod wrote:What's the rule when they both ground it at the same time?

try

at the time , i thought it was a try, at home watching it i thought it was a try and i thought Lacey was an arse for not checking it, although i think Scotland should have made more of it.

I couldn't find simultaneous grounding in the laws? Closest I can see is:

22.15 Doubt about grounding
If there is doubt about which team first grounded the ball in the in-goal, play is re-started by a 5-metre scrum, in line with the place where the ball was grounded. The attacking team throws in the ball.

Yes but if you have your hands on the ball you are in possession until you let go. If they truly got their hands to the ball (not the grounding) at exactly the same moment I'd guess that question would need to be asked.

The other thing on the Rhys Webb pull back, non try incident is that the line out that started the move was nowhere near straight, I was right in line with it.

Nothing malicious in Lacey's officiating, he's just crap. I am surprised that he is allowed to referee Test matches and despite winning the game, I don't think his assessment by Scotland will make particularly good reading. Parked now. Onwards and upwards - at least we've had our fill of him for this season.

RE Scott Williams,

One ref gave a pen try for that the first weekend, it is high and it winded Seymore but before we cast aspersions ive seen Hogg do that to quite a few, for me its something that needs looked at

RE Tuperic, clever play by Tuperic and not a yellow card unless its Scotland that did it and Clancey thats reffing


Interestingly they nearly got that try as Lacey didnt think webb had done enough but the TMO disagreed, so perhaps Wales had fogotted to send the Alex Cuthbert jinx to Scotland

whatisthejava wrote:RE Scott Williams,

One ref gave a pen try for that the first weekend, it is high and it winded Seymore but before we cast aspersions ive seen Hogg do that to quite a few, for me its something that needs looked at

RE Tuperic, clever play by Tuperic and not a yellow card unless its Scotland that did it and Clancey thats reffing


Interestingly they nearly got that try as Lacey didnt think webb had done enough but the TMO disagreed, so perhaps Wales had fogotted to send the Alex Cuthbert jinx to Scotland

The Williams tackle only becomes a debate about a penalty try if he prevents a try being scored IIRC, but I agree it needs looked at as it could still be a yellow if bad enough.

Big D wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:RE Scott Williams,

One ref gave a pen try for that the first weekend, it is high and it winded Seymore but before we cast aspersions ive seen Hogg do that to quite a few, for me its something that needs looked at

RE Tuperic, clever play by Tuperic and not a yellow card unless its Scotland that did it and Clancey thats reffing


Interestingly they nearly got that try as Lacey didnt think webb had done enough but the TMO disagreed, so perhaps Wales had fogotted to send the Alex Cuthbert jinx to Scotland

The Williams tackle only becomes a debate about a penalty try if he prevents a try being scored IIRC, but I agree it needs looked at as it could still be a yellow if bad enough.

Interesting to see how that situation, if it occurs, plays out at 80 minutes when 6 points behind.

Mikey Brown wrote:

Big D wrote:

whatisthejava wrote:RE Scott Williams,

One ref gave a pen try for that the first weekend, it is high and it winded Seymore but before we cast aspersions ive seen Hogg do that to quite a few, for me its something that needs looked at

RE Tuperic, clever play by Tuperic and not a yellow card unless its Scotland that did it and Clancey thats reffing


Interestingly they nearly got that try as Lacey didnt think webb had done enough but the TMO disagreed, so perhaps Wales had fogotted to send the Alex Cuthbert jinx to Scotland

The Williams tackle only becomes a debate about a penalty try if he prevents a try being scored IIRC, but I agree it needs looked at as it could still be a yellow if bad enough.

Interesting to see how that situation, if it occurs, plays out at 80 minutes when 6 points behind.

Actually I don't know now:
22.1 (h)

Penalty try. A penalty try is awarded if a try would probably have been scored but for foul play by the defending team. A penalty try is awarded if a try would probably have been scored in a better position but for foul play by the defending team.

So if Williams is "removed" from play as he committed the foul Seymour may have scored in a slightly better position for the kick, so maybe it should have been a pen try but I wouldn't complain that it wasn't.

I thought they were talking (and implementing) sanctions for dangerous tackling in the process of preventing a try or diving on tryscorers. Points+ yellow card or points + penalty

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Yeah, couldn't the penalty have been awarded as the restart after the conversion?

I know there's a focus on avoiding head injuries, but players dive for the line an awful lot and trying to tackle here is not malicious or with intent to aim for the head.
I think a YC for Williams would have been very harsh indeed, but a penalty restart would at least make defenders give some thought as to their actions when trying to prevent a try.

penalty restarts only given for acts after the try has been scored

Its not a yellow card but sooner or later it will be as soon as 1 player is confirmed concussed from it

WR only care about liability

Big D wrote:http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/8987 ... =hootsuite

Cheers. I'm seriously disappointed he's not going to be here to see us through to the next WC.

Hmm. It's hard not to feel a little of that, particularly after the Wales win. It's been a pretty gradual improvement but I'm just starting to get a bit of perspective on how far we've come in a few years. The Laidlaw obsession and matchly (???) selection clanger aside we've fielded pretty good teams on the whole. Are we still yet to see how these guys react when we often would have crumbled before? Is that what happened in the France game? I'm not sure.

I've said this before but I hope we haven't jumped the gun getting Townsend in so soon. If Robinson had continued his upward curve with Edinburgh all those years back where would they be now? At least Rennie should do a job with Glasgow. I hope GT is ready for Scotland.