England v Scotland, Saturday 4.45

[paddy no 11]

I have Kinghorn on 4 handling errors, scandalous

[paddy no 11]

Is huw jones the highest ever try scorer in this fixture?

[paddy no 11]

England drag down the maul just before half time, blatant yellow, ref gives a turnover

It's that kind of stuff Scotland are going to rue

[paddy no 11]

Bring on fagerson and mcdowell ffs

[paddy no 11]

What an idiotic contest

How the fuck do darge and Jordan think that's not going to be a penalty,

[paddy no 11]

Ashman ffs

[paddy no 11]

The ref gave some terrible decisions against Scotland but jeez Scotland pissed that away

[BaldiePete]

Too pissed off to comment just now.

[Big D]

Is what it is really.

Didn't take our chances and we're not a side that can afford to do that.

Some good and some bad.

[Cameo]

Aaaaaah!

Lots of good and our backs showed what they can do again, but so so hard with no penetration up front and when you are goving away multiple penalties in the scrum.

Really, though, we lost that at the breakdown, some from good play by England, some from our poor play, and some from a very strange approach to the breakdown from the ref. England were disciplined and competitive but I don't know how they didn't give away more penalties in defence or how they were awarded penalties for some of their turnovers when they weren't remotely supporting their body weight. We could really have done with either penalty advantages or quick ball.

Missed kicks obviously an issue too. Would not have felt undeserved if we won that at the end. Russell was great otherwise though.

Would much rather that gane though rather than last time out.

[Cameo]

Oh, and did VDM know we needed the kick? He could have easily got 5-10 metres further in. I'd even say it would have been worth the risk of running over a defender for.

[BaldiePete]

Lots of folk saying Toonie out, but I’m not sure this was the match to make that decision on. The players that were selected could and should have won that. The loss is down to them not the coach. Even with the terrible refereeing the players had the opportunity to win and should have done so.

[Cameo]

Lots of folk saying Toonie out, but I’m not sure this was the match to make that decision on. The players that were selected could and should have won that. The loss is down to them not the coach. Even with the terrible refereeing the players had the opportunity to win and should have done so.

If you compare the players (mainly packs) available today, it would be a strange conclusion to say that Townsend was out coached.

A one point loss away against a team ranked about the same as us, while down players in positions we are weak in, isn't evidence to sack a coach. I am okay with moving on from him, but that is because of games like Ireland and a sense that we might as well try something slightly different, not because of games like today.

Put it this way, if in two years under a new coach, we are a kick away from winning at Twickenham, I will be pleasantly surprised.

[Mikey Brown]

Lots of folk saying Toonie out, but I’m not sure this was the match to make that decision on. The players that were selected could and should have won that. The loss is down to them not the coach. Even with the terrible refereeing the players had the opportunity to win and should have done so.

If you compare the players (mainly packs) available today, it would be a strange conclusion to say that Townsend was out coached.

A one point loss away against a team ranked about the same as us, while down players in positions we are weak in, isn't evidence to sack a coach. I am okay with moving on from him, but that is because of games like Ireland and a sense that we might as well try something slightly different, not because of games like today.

Put it this way, if in two years under a new coach, we are a kick away from winning at Twickenham, I will be pleasantly surprised.

Well put.

Struggling to verbalise much else about the game. Equal parts bizarre and infuriating.

[Spiffy]

Lots of folk saying Toonie out, but I’m not sure this was the match to make that decision on. The players that were selected could and should have won that. The loss is down to them not the coach. Even with the terrible refereeing the players had the opportunity to win and should have done so.

The Scotland backs clearly had the measure of their English counterparts. All they had to do was keep running the ball, spreading it wide, stop kicking it away, and avoid an arm wrestle up front. Poor tactics/decision making/leadership cost them the game. Agree about the ref. He's been pretty useless any time I've seen him.

[Cameo]

Lots of folk saying Toonie out, but I’m not sure this was the match to make that decision on. The players that were selected could and should have won that. The loss is down to them not the coach. Even with the terrible refereeing the players had the opportunity to win and should have done so.

The Scotland backs clearly had the measure of their English counterparts. All they had to do was keep running the ball, spreading it wide, stop kicking it away, and avoid an arm wrestle up front. Poor tactics/decision making/leadership cost them the game. Agree about the ref. He's been pretty useless any time I've seen him.

I'm not sure I agree. It's just not as simple as that. England tightened up their defence and we were struggling at the breakdown. Running it when it is not on just gets us into trouble. Our kicking game was generally good and got us into good positions. Yes, some tactical errors but I think the loss came down to execution.

[Cameo]

Freeman:

“The referee awarded it – therefore I grounded it,” said Freeman. “He awarded it so that’s the end of it really. I’m not going to say anything different. You take the points and stop asking questions. He must have seen it on the ground.”

[Cameo]

Also, don't want to make this a pile on on the ref, but curious about a technical question.

Isn't there a limit about how far back a TMO is meant to go? I know it got changed for tries, but not sure I am aware of play being brought back two stoppages like it was for the Rowe high tackle. Rowe made the high tackle, England carried on playing, Ritchie got a penalty, Scotland kicked for touch, Slade kept it in and then kicked it out. Then the TMO looked at the high tackle. I would have thought he would have to bring it to the refs attention at the next stoppage (the Scotland penalty) or not at all?

[Mikey Brown]

Freeman:

“The referee awarded it – therefore I grounded it,” said Freeman. “He awarded it so that’s the end of it really. I’m not going to say anything different. You take the points and stop asking questions. He must have seen it on the ground.”

Ha. Starts off defiant then loses it a bit.

[paddy no 11]

Also, Spencer grubbered a ball back into his own 22,Marcus Smith kicks the ball out on the full, so should have been a lineout about 10 yards out not 40.

So freeman never scored

The worst decision was the maul before a half time, was a blatant yellow and likely would have been a try off next pen

[Cameo]

Also, Spencer grubbered a ball back into his own 22,Marcus Smith kicks the ball out on the full, so should have been a lineout about 10 yards out not 40.

So freeman never scored

The worst decision was the maul before a half time, was a blatant yellow and likely would have been a try off next pen

I think you see those maul ones given either way. Annoying but it is what it is.

Was very confused by the Itoje one. Arguably a penalty against Russell for sealing off but clearly not a clean turnover. He had 80% of his weight on the ball and the rest on Russell's back. Refs in Super Rugby have been very clear that if you can't lift the ball, you clearly aren't supporting your own body weight. There was another one near England's line in the first half which was similar, just not as comical. And a counter-ruck swinging round the side of the ruck and knocking the ball out of White's hands.

[Cameo]

Thought Rowe went well btw. No Darcy but same kind of bounce and involvement.

Ritchie was great too.

[Mikey Brown]

Ritchie was the best I’ve seen him since before he was cursed with the captaincy.

I’ve got a lot of time for Rowe. Not a headline grabber but incredibly evasive and always throws everything at it, a perfect like-for-like with Darcy.

[Donny osmond]

Didn't watch it live and am not tempted to watch a replay. I've seen the Scottish tries, I don't need to witness the gift wrapping. From the soundbites it sounds like a perfect illustration of where we are - 1. highly skilled at creating and scoring; 2. highly skilled at not being good/consistent enough over the course of a game to close it out

[paddy no 11]

Also, Spencer grubbered a ball back into his own 22,Marcus Smith kicks the ball out on the full, so should have been a lineout about 10 yards out not 40.

So freeman never scored

The worst decision was the maul before a half time, was a blatant yellow and likely would have been a try off next pen

I think you see those maul ones given either way. Annoying but it is what it is.

Was very confused by the Itoje one. Arguably a penalty against Russell for sealing off but clearly not a clean turnover. He had 80% of his weight on the ball and the rest on Russell's back. Refs in Super Rugby have been very clear that if you can't lift the ball, you clearly aren't supporting your own body weight. There was another one near England's line in the first half which was similar, just not as comical. And a counter-ruck swinging round the side of the ruck and knocking the ball out of White's hands.

If you see that maul on the 2nd angle I.e. the touch judges view its very blatant

As you say if finn Russell was sealing off that ruck, then he should given 100 penalties

There are certain players refs don't penalise the likes of Doris, itoje, dupont, the saffron 2nd row etc, even when blatantly fouling they don't get pinged, Scotland do mot have such a "personality"