RugbyRebels

And there he is, remembering to catch the ball and fall over.

Well worked Brizz

And then Ibitoye showing POC how to make a try with superior numbers (brilliant try, that'll be one for the season highlights)

Not sure that was a knock on by Genge at the end there.

Loss of Sheedy to that shot from van Velze really put paid to Bristol.

TFFT.

Brilliant, hard fought derby in freezing rain

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 8:36 pm How good is Redpath? I can never make up my mind but tend towards thinking he is over-rated.

I’m certainly glad Scotland got him, but would take him ahead of any English option at 12 with no hesitation.

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:34 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 8:36 pm How good is Redpath? I can never make up my mind but tend towards thinking he is over-rated.

I’m certainly glad Scotland got him, but would take him ahead of any English option at 12 with no hesitation.

That's a fairly low bar to skip over what with our 12 options being up and comers, players out of position or those past their best. Redpath should be coming in to peak form at 23 (thought he was older to be fair, though he's nearly 24).

If he can stay injury free and show some consistent form he's got a great shot at Scotland selection for the 6N. Playing alongside Russell will help his selection case as well.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:36 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:34 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 8:36 pm How good is Redpath? I can never make up my mind but tend towards thinking he is over-rated.

I’m certainly glad Scotland got him, but would take him ahead of any English option at 12 with no hesitation.

That's a fairly low bar to skip over what with our 12 options being up and comers, players out of position or those past their best. Redpath should be coming in to peak form at 23 (thought he was older to be fair, though he's nearly 24).

If he can stay injury free and show some consistent form he's got a great shot at Scotland selection for the 6N. Playing alongside Russell will help his selection case as well.

I don't want to make a big issue of this because I haven't seen enough of them but I don't see Redpath as much ahead of Ojomoh. I'd also have him way behind Lawrence (who was inside Redpath for at least one of his best moves).

Very good game in the conditions. Bristol will rue missed kicks and their inability to convert a golden try scoring chance just before h/t.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:26 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:36 am

Mikey Brown wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 12:34 am

I’m certainly glad Scotland got him, but would take him ahead of any English option at 12 with no hesitation.

That's a fairly low bar to skip over what with our 12 options being up and comers, players out of position or those past their best. Redpath should be coming in to peak form at 23 (thought he was older to be fair, though he's nearly 24).

If he can stay injury free and show some consistent form he's got a great shot at Scotland selection for the 6N. Playing alongside Russell will help his selection case as well.

I don't want to make a big issue of this because I haven't seen enough of them but I don't see Redpath as much ahead of Ojomoh. I'd also have him way behind Lawrence (who was inside Redpath for at least one of his best moves).

From what I've seen Ojomoh looks a bit raw whereas Redpath the more polished and poised at this level. Ojomoh might have overtake him, don't know.

Lawrence can do a job at 12 but the additional space at 13 seems to get the best out of him. The try he scores running through Oghre is starting from 13 then running a hard line back in, Russel playing flat to the line and Lawrence's footwork open it up nicely. There was the break down the wing, the double step from the 5m channel back inside. Much like a young Manu the extra space at 13 just allows him to use his pace and footwork more, he can still run the holding lines or crash at 12 but it becomes less the go to and more an option to create space on strike plays. I don't actually think he's that good carrying hard into traffic compared to Manu, Aki, de Allende etc.

I'm hoping that Lawrence at 13 gives the England midfield a bit more explosive carrying threat in the 6N, though having a 10 that can distribute flat to the line might be required as well.

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:56 am Very good game in the conditions. Bristol will rue missed kicks and their inability to convert a golden try scoring chance just before h/t.

The Miles Reid interception and then turnover a metre or so from his line were crucial interventions in that first half. For whatever reason seems he's a bit underrated.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:59 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:26 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 7:36 am

That's a fairly low bar to skip over what with our 12 options being up and comers, players out of position or those past their best. Redpath should be coming in to peak form at 23 (thought he was older to be fair, though he's nearly 24).

If he can stay injury free and show some consistent form he's got a great shot at Scotland selection for the 6N. Playing alongside Russell will help his selection case as well.

I don't want to make a big issue of this because I haven't seen enough of them but I don't see Redpath as much ahead of Ojomoh. I'd also have him way behind Lawrence (who was inside Redpath for at least one of his best moves).

From what I've seen Ojomoh looks a bit raw whereas Redpath the more polished and poised at this level. Ojomoh might have overtake him, don't know.

Lawrence can do a job at 12 but the additional space at 13 seems to get the best out of him. The try he scores running through Oghre is starting from 13 then running a hard line back in, Russel playing flat to the line and Lawrence's footwork open it up nicely. There was the break down the wing, the double step from the 5m channel back inside. Much like a young Manu the extra space at 13 just allows him to use his pace and footwork more, he can still run the holding lines or crash at 12 but it becomes less the go to and more an option to create space on strike plays. I don't actually think he's that good carrying hard into traffic compared to Manu, Aki, de Allende etc.

I'm hoping that Lawrence at 13 gives the England midfield a bit more explosive carrying threat in the 6N, though having a 10 that can distribute flat to the line might be required as well.

Yet he may still currently be Eng’s/Bath’s best 12 despite being a better player at 13, which I think was Dors’s point.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:28 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:59 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:26 am

I don't want to make a big issue of this because I haven't seen enough of them but I don't see Redpath as much ahead of Ojomoh. I'd also have him way behind Lawrence (who was inside Redpath for at least one of his best moves).

From what I've seen Ojomoh looks a bit raw whereas Redpath the more polished and poised at this level. Ojomoh might have overtake him, don't know.

Lawrence can do a job at 12 but the additional space at 13 seems to get the best out of him. The try he scores running through Oghre is starting from 13 then running a hard line back in, Russel playing flat to the line and Lawrence's footwork open it up nicely. There was the break down the wing, the double step from the 5m channel back inside. Much like a young Manu the extra space at 13 just allows him to use his pace and footwork more, he can still run the holding lines or crash at 12 but it becomes less the go to and more an option to create space on strike plays. I don't actually think he's that good carrying hard into traffic compared to Manu, Aki, de Allende etc.

I'm hoping that Lawrence at 13 gives the England midfield a bit more explosive carrying threat in the 6N, though having a 10 that can distribute flat to the line might be required as well.

Yet he may still currently be Eng’s/Bath’s best 12 despite being a better player at 13, which I think was Dors’s point.

Does that mean SB will try him on the wing?

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:28 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:59 am

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:26 am

I don't want to make a big issue of this because I haven't seen enough of them but I don't see Redpath as much ahead of Ojomoh. I'd also have him way behind Lawrence (who was inside Redpath for at least one of his best moves).

From what I've seen Ojomoh looks a bit raw whereas Redpath the more polished and poised at this level. Ojomoh might have overtake him, don't know.

Lawrence can do a job at 12 but the additional space at 13 seems to get the best out of him. The try he scores running through Oghre is starting from 13 then running a hard line back in, Russel playing flat to the line and Lawrence's footwork open it up nicely. There was the break down the wing, the double step from the 5m channel back inside. Much like a young Manu the extra space at 13 just allows him to use his pace and footwork more, he can still run the holding lines or crash at 12 but it becomes less the go to and more an option to create space on strike plays. I don't actually think he's that good carrying hard into traffic compared to Manu, Aki, de Allende etc.

I'm hoping that Lawrence at 13 gives the England midfield a bit more explosive carrying threat in the 6N, though having a 10 that can distribute flat to the line might be required as well.

Yet he may still currently be Eng’s/Bath’s best 12 despite being a better player at 13, which I think was Dors’s point.

Lawrence may be better at 13 than 12 in some set-ups and could develop as a classy international OC IF we had a quality 12 lined up so that a partnership could develop. BUT, we don't. That leaves having to start from scratch with one of the raw pretenders, waste shirt time with Farrell/Tuilagi or give Lawrence a decent run to make the 12 shirt his own. I think he is a good fit with Smith or Smith at 10.

Redpath is a credible international 12 with Scotland, arguably, but he is not the player that Lawrence is, IMO. I don't know where that leaves Bath and it is a classic dilemma in developing the best interests of player/club/country.

Atkinson and Lawrence, plus Freeman. Sorted.

Think 9 a bigger issue, alongside props.

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:48 am Atkinson and Lawrence, plus Freeman. Sorted.

Think 9 a bigger issue, alongside props.

I'd be happy to see that centre pairing tried but I don't have the same conviction about Atkinson that you do.

Why do you say 9 is a bigger issue? Mitchell, JVP, Quirke?

I certainly agree about props. Sinckler and Genge seem to get some hidings at scrum time and may not be any sort of long-term option unless they halt their decline soon. I have always thought Genge was over-rated but I am surprised at Sinckler's loss of effectiveness.

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:00 am

fivepointer wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:56 am Very good game in the conditions. Bristol will rue missed kicks and their inability to convert a golden try scoring chance just before h/t.

The Miles Reid interception and then turnover a metre or so from his line were crucial interventions in that first half. For whatever reason seems he's a bit underrated.

Dont think i've ever seen him have a poor game. Always makes a positive impact on proceedings. Definitely under rated.

Props, hooker, 9, 12 and 15 are all big issues, imo. Someone hide the sharp knives.

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:28 am Yet he may still currently be Bath’s best 12 despite being a better player at 13, which I think was Dors’s point.

He really isn't.

MOjo and Redpath both better in the IC channel - at club level at least (and at international level, when compared to Redpath).

I'm failing to see any setup where Lawrence is a better IC than OC. He might have to play IC in a system due to lack of alternatives, but that doesn't make him a better IC than OC.

It's just got "Watson can't play full back" written all over it.

I know it's a bit revolutionary - especially for a board that is generally opposed to playing players out of position - but maybe, just maybe, we could play a specialist OC at OC, and a specialist IC at IC - you never know, it might just work!

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:33 am Props, hooker, 9, 12 and 15 are all big issues, imo. Someone hide the sharp knives.

Thought Smith nailed on lions 15…..


Hooker? I see Dan, Langdon and Frost the nuts moving on.

12 remains an issue if we continue to select a player out of position

And Puja will be along to move the last few posts…..

Redpath is far better at reading the game. He is a better passer, kicker, off-loader, jackaller (I guess that isn’t a word but whatever), decision-maker, is a good runner in his own right and seems to be quite a vocal organiser for a fairly young guy.

Lawrence is obviously capable of far more explosive carries (when he can keep hold of the ball) and the occasional big physical impact, but Redpath is weirdly effective at making hard yards (for someone his shape and size) purely through footwork and technique. Crucially he just seems to know when a certain skill is needed, which I don’t see all that much of in Lawrence.

It’s a meaningless comparison though really. I like both. They play different positions (though I quite enjoyed what Lawrence offered England as a 12), have a lot of developing left to do and have both had various runs of injuries.

Saying all that I didn’t even see this game, so I have no idea if Redpath was any good or not at the weekend.

I think Lawrence playing outside an all-rounder like Redpath (with a 10 who actually attacks) can focus on being a devastating carrier. Hopefully the sort of balance England could replicate with an Atkinson of some description or maybe Kelly if they keep developing.

Oakboy wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:18 am

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:48 am Atkinson and Lawrence, plus Freeman. Sorted.

Think 9 a bigger issue, alongside props.

I'd be happy to see that centre pairing tried but I don't have the same conviction about Atkinson that you do.

I had a similar conviction over Stuart Abbott….. alas that did little to enhance his international career (which was a real shame as he was class)

p/d wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:31 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:28 am

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:59 am

From what I've seen Ojomoh looks a bit raw whereas Redpath the more polished and poised at this level. Ojomoh might have overtake him, don't know.

Lawrence can do a job at 12 but the additional space at 13 seems to get the best out of him. The try he scores running through Oghre is starting from 13 then running a hard line back in, Russel playing flat to the line and Lawrence's footwork open it up nicely. There was the break down the wing, the double step from the 5m channel back inside. Much like a young Manu the extra space at 13 just allows him to use his pace and footwork more, he can still run the holding lines or crash at 12 but it becomes less the go to and more an option to create space on strike plays. I don't actually think he's that good carrying hard into traffic compared to Manu, Aki, de Allende etc.

I'm hoping that Lawrence at 13 gives the England midfield a bit more explosive carrying threat in the 6N, though having a 10 that can distribute flat to the line might be required as well.

Yet he may still currently be Eng’s/Bath’s best 12 despite being a better player at 13, which I think was Dors’s point.

Does that mean SB will try him on the wing?

I thought Eddie already did.

I'm on the play an actual IC at IC bandwagon I'm afraid, particularly because there's not a boat load of OCs ready to contest the shirt.

as an aside - credit to the groundsmen - that looked brilliant, after being cut like a bitch in the PRC and first rounds

FKAS wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:13 am
I'm on the play an actual IC at IC bandwagon

Amen to that

Which Tyler wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:50 am

Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:28 am Yet he may still currently be Bath’s best 12 despite being a better player at 13, which I think was Dors’s point.

He really isn't.

MOjo and Redpath both better in the IC channel - at club level at least (and at international level, when compared to Redpath).

I'm failing to see any setup where Lawrence is a better IC than OC. He might have to play IC in a system due to lack of alternatives, but that doesn't make him a better IC than OC.

It's just got "Watson can't play full back" written all over it.

I know it's a bit revolutionary - especially for a board that is generally opposed to playing players out of position - but maybe, just maybe, we could play a specialist OC at OC, and a specialist IC at IC - you never know, it might just work!

Possibly all true. I haven’t watched Bath play for ages as it’s a bit like watching a turd dry, until this season it would seem. I was merely saying that fkas had missed OB’s point.