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Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:27 pm
by CunningPunter
Ah, got it. So when Joe Marler called Samson Lee a "gypsum boy" he really meant he was a plaster saint?
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:51 pm
by Epaminondas Pules
That is not a statement you make lightly, and especially the RFU!
They will know the kant/ side Afrikaans conversations and still make this statement, which says a LOT!
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:43 pm
by Galfon
Mr Mwenda wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:42 pm
.. I do feel it sounds like a weird explanation. Is it normal to refer to the other team's side in games by colour? That's not something I've encountered except from refs.
agree, sounds a bit of p!ss take - refs. are neutral and this is a clear means of letting all know who they're talking about.
surely players will usually use 'our/their' , 'we/they' etc..and dismissing this this may open the potential for wum's to use terms such as 'yellow belly' when referring to e.g. Oz midriff, or 'black (whatever) for an AB body part contact etc etc
Needs some clarity.
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:53 pm
by oldbackrow
Its a while ago I appreciate, but many years ago I was involved with an ex pat SA team and they use "hulle" (theirs) and "urs' (ours) and "veelum" for lost, not sure about the spelling. Will be interesting to listen out over the refs mike for "schwarz kant" and "groen kant" on Saturday!
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:15 pm
by Eugene Wrayburn
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:51 pm
That is not a statement you make lightly, and especially the RFU!
They will know the kant/ side Afrikaans conversations and still make this statement, which says a LOT!
It mainly says the RFU are a bunch of arseholes. In a shouting stadium of 80k people (albeit some English fans so maybe not as noisy as normal) it's not possible for someone to have made an innocent mistake of what they heard? When there's not a single other witness? With language and accents also potentially an issue? I wouldn't prosecute that in a million years.
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:56 pm
by Epaminondas Pules
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:15 pm
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:51 pm
That is not a statement you make lightly, and especially the RFU!
They will know the kant/ side Afrikaans conversations and still make this statement, which says a LOT!
It mainly says the RFU are a bunch of arseholes. In a shouting stadium of 80k people (albeit some English fans so maybe not as noisy as normal) it's not possible for someone to have made an innocent mistake of what they heard? When there's not a single other witness? With language and accents also potentially an issue? I wouldn't prosecute that in a million years.
Is it also not possible that he called him a white cunt?
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:38 pm
by Eugene Wrayburn
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:56 pm
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:15 pm
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:51 pm
That is not a statement you make lightly, and especially the RFU!
They will know the kant/ side Afrikaans conversations and still make this statement, which says a LOT!
It mainly says the RFU are a bunch of arseholes. In a shouting stadium of 80k people (albeit some English fans so maybe not as noisy as normal) it's not possible for someone to have made an innocent mistake of what they heard? When there's not a single other witness? With language and accents also potentially an issue? I wouldn't prosecute that in a million years.
Is it also not possible that he called him a white cunt?
Of course it is. But the RFU don't acknowledge anything other than the one, really very unlikely, possibility. The strength with which they've gone in their statement is wholly disproportionate tio the certainty they can possibly have. If there were half a dozen witnesses, or an admission or a recording then have at it. However in the circumstances, it's wholly inappropriate. A proper statement would be something along the lines of "whilst we have no doubt whatsoever in Curry's truthfulness we understand, but don't agree with, World Rugby's inability to be certain as to it's accuracy".
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:51 pm
by Epaminondas Pules
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:38 pm
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:56 pm
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:15 pm
It mainly says the RFU are a bunch of arseholes. In a shouting stadium of 80k people (albeit some English fans so maybe not as noisy as normal) it's not possible for someone to have made an innocent mistake of what they heard? When there's not a single other witness? With language and accents also potentially an issue? I wouldn't prosecute that in a million years.
Is it also not possible that he called him a white cunt?
Of course it is. But the RFU don't acknowledge anything other than the one, really very unlikely, possibility. The strength with which they've gone in their statement is wholly disproportionate tio the certainty they can possibly have. If there were half a dozen witnesses, or an admission or a recording then have at it. However in the circumstances, it's wholly inappropriate. A proper statement would be something along the lines of "whilst we have no doubt whatsoever in Curry's truthfulness we understand, but don't agree with, World Rugby's inability to be certain as to it's accuracy".
Really very unlikely? They’ve spoken to the player who called it out. That appears enough for them to make such a statement. That says a lot.
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:39 pm
by Oakboy
Why, oh why, did Curry (if he felt he HAD to react - and I don't think he should have done) not simply ask the referee if he'd heard what was just said? If the answer was, 'No', he should have made no further mention of it, not even in the dressing room. There could not possibly have been any outcome to make a fuss worthwhile.
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:54 pm
by Epaminondas Pules
Yeah let’s not call out racism
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:58 pm
by Oakboy
In the context of a rugby match there is nowhere to go without the ref. Getting precious about the principles is self-defeating, frankly. Sometimes, no matter how wrong, these things have to be swallowed unfortunately.
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:17 pm
by Which Tyler
It's the victim's own fault for making a fuss!
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:39 pm
by Epaminondas Pules
Oakboy wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 5:58 pm
In the context of a rugby match there is nowhere to go without the ref. Getting precious about the principles is self-defeating, frankly. Sometimes, no matter how wrong, these things have to be swallowed unfortunately.
Racism should never be swallowed.
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:10 am
by Eugene Wrayburn
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:51 pm
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:38 pm
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 2:56 pm
Is it also not possible that he called him a white cunt?
Of course it is. But the RFU don't acknowledge anything other than the one, really very unlikely, possibility. The strength with which they've gone in their statement is wholly disproportionate tio the certainty they can possibly have. If there were half a dozen witnesses, or an admission or a recording then have at it. However in the circumstances, it's wholly inappropriate. A proper statement would be something along the lines of "whilst we have no doubt whatsoever in Curry's truthfulness we understand, but don't agree with, World Rugby's inability to be certain as to it's accuracy".
Really very unlikely? They’ve spoken to the player who called it out. That appears enough for them to make such a statement. That says a lot.
Yes, really very unlikely. Or are you unaware of the South African context? How many South Africans do you think would swallow their team mate wandering around calling players white cunts? Or do you think Curry is uniquely cunt-ish to Bongi that is only ever directed at him and not the hundreds of other white players he's faced? Think of the loss of control that would be needed for a South African to do this. So yes I'll stick with really very unlikely.
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:08 am
by Epaminondas Pules
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:10 am
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:51 pm
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:38 pm
Of course it is. But the RFU don't acknowledge anything other than the one, really very unlikely, possibility. The strength with which they've gone in their statement is wholly disproportionate tio the certainty they can possibly have. If there were half a dozen witnesses, or an admission or a recording then have at it. However in the circumstances, it's wholly inappropriate. A proper statement would be something along the lines of "whilst we have no doubt whatsoever in Curry's truthfulness we understand, but don't agree with, World Rugby's inability to be certain as to it's accuracy".
Really very unlikely? They’ve spoken to the player who called it out. That appears enough for them to make such a statement. That says a lot.
Yes, really very unlikely. Or are you unaware of the South African context? How many South Africans do you think would swallow their team mate wandering around calling players white cunts? Or do you think Curry is uniquely cunt-ish to Bongi that is only ever directed at him and not the hundreds of other white players he's faced? Think of the loss of control that would be needed for a South African to do this. So yes I'll stick with really very unlikely.
Being South African does not make him immune to being a racist or making a racist comment. There’s no loss of control needed at all when in close proximity to a player to make such a comment.
I’m extremely unlikely to be racist because I’m South African is frankly a laughable view.
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:58 pm
by Eugene Wrayburn
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:08 am
Eugene Wrayburn wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:10 am
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 4:51 pm
Really very unlikely? They’ve spoken to the player who called it out. That appears enough for them to make such a statement. That says a lot.
Yes, really very unlikely. Or are you unaware of the South African context? How many South Africans do you think would swallow their team mate wandering around calling players white cunts? Or do you think Curry is uniquely cunt-ish to Bongi that is only ever directed at him and not the hundreds of other white players he's faced? Think of the loss of control that would be needed for a South African to do this. So yes I'll stick with really very unlikely.
Being South African does not make him immune to being a racist or making a racist comment. There’s no loss of control needed at all when in close proximity to a player to make such a comment.
I’m extremely unlikely to be racist because I’m South African is frankly a laughable view.
Luckily enough it isn't the one I expressed. But then actually dealing with the one I expressed might be more challenging so you were completely right to have nothing at all to do with it.
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 11:53 am
by Epaminondas Pules
Tom Curry speaks in the matter.
“For me, on both occasions, the ball was out of play. Me and Bongi were talking and there’s no misunderstanding from my part. I went to the referee straight away. I heard what I heard. That’s all I really want to say about it and I won’t really be talking about it again.
“It was tough for my family, my girlfriend and my brother. It was a tough experience but it is what it is. The investigation’s been done and that’s all I want to say about it.”
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:59 pm
by p/d
Top man
Re: Racism accusations
Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2023 8:46 pm
by Epaminondas Pules
South African racists? Cannot be surely! Especially those who are non white…..
https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/e ... nt-2767600