RugbyRebels

Lizard wrote:

Mikey Brown wrote:In a way I'm surprised Umaga doesn't get in, maybe if hed played more at 12 with Smith or was he just not all that?

Umaga was a centre (13) not a second five-eighth (12). He might have started one or two tests at 12 but not enough to be a "great" in that position.

I'm always mystified at the rest of the world doggedly refusing to adopt a fairly old positional innovation that helps NZ be the best in the world, and continuing to lump 12 & 13 together as "centres."

I would argue that we've not really played a 2nd 5/8 for some time, and certainly not in the time frame that covers 2 WC wins. Nonu was very much an inside centre. Crotty's arguable, I suppose.

1. Shut up.

2. By the end of his career, Nonu had the distribution skills of a true 2nd 5/8. He had a bit more bosh than traditional, true, and he would have been unlikely to fill in at 1st 5/8!


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I dont know why you brought that up in relation to my question but okay. I thought it's just what your lot happen to call 12? The NH seem to now associate with the Manger/Giteau type. It all makes me cringe. It's still inside centre, it's still one of two centres on the pitch.

My suggestion was if (!) he played 12 more he might have been pretty handy there.

Lizard wrote:1. Shut up.

2. By the end of his career, Nonu had the distribution skills of a true 2nd 5/8. He had a bit more bosh than traditional, true, and he would have been unlikely to fill in at 1st 5/8!

I accept your concession.

Mikey Brown wrote:I dont know why you brought that up in relation to my question but okay. I thought it's just what your lot happen to call 12? The NH seem to now associate with the Manger/Giteau type. It all makes me cringe. It's still inside centre, it's still one of two centres on the pitch.

My suggestion was if (!) he played 12 more he might have been pretty handy there.

Sorry, I thought you believed Umaga had played 12 but just not with Smith.

Their careers overlapped by a year. They played in the same squad 6 times, and in 5 of them started as a Umaga 12/Smith 13 combo. Those were hammerings of Italy and France in Europe, nearly killing Fiji in NZ, walking over th Lions in the 3rd test in 2005 and spanking Wales the following November.

Updated again. Hayman has secured tighthead for now.

Just the coach to go.

How long should I keep voting open for before declaring the team?

Probably no selection would irritate me more than Hayman securing a role as "The Greatest". Come on, people.

Fucking nice work Liz-ard.

Mikey Brown wrote:In a way I'm surprised Umaga doesn't get in, maybe if hed played more at 12 with Smith or was he just not all that?

Umaga was a winger, and had greatness in his grasp. He converted to centre because have the Captain out on the wing seemed to trouble the coaches, and maybe he thought the possibles less crowded in that position, but he should have stayed a winger. Converting from wing (lots of time and space) to centre (much less of both) has never worked in the player's favour. It's destroyed several careers.

I like the wings in this greatest side, tho. My preferred pairing; Savea and Lomu. Would have loved to see it.

Would it be fair to say that Auckland & the sun-drenched north produces most of the best tight forwards along with some of the best back rowers and outside backs, windy Wellington produces most of the best outside backs, and chilly Canterbury produces most of the best inside backs and some of the best back rowers. Canterbury also seemed to produce most of the best coaches, while Wellington hasn't produced anyone in that department during the pro era.

Lizard wrote:1. Shut up.

2. By the end of his career, Nonu had the distribution skills of a true 2nd 5/8. He had a bit more bosh than traditional, true, and he would have been unlikely to fill in at 1st 5/8!


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Can you really be a 2nd 5 if you can't move in 1? To me both Nonu and SBW are inside centres not 2nd 5s

canta_brian wrote:

Lizard wrote:1. Shut up.

2. By the end of his career, Nonu had the distribution skills of a true 2nd 5/8. He had a bit more bosh than traditional, true, and he would have been unlikely to fill in at 1st 5/8!


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Can you really be a 2nd 5 if you can't move in 1? To me both Nonu and SBW are inside centres not 2nd 5s

You've gone native old chap.

morepork wrote:

canta_brian wrote:

Lizard wrote:1. Shut up.

2. By the end of his career, Nonu had the distribution skills of a true 2nd 5/8. He had a bit more bosh than traditional, true, and he would have been unlikely to fill in at 1st 5/8!


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Can you really be a 2nd 5 if you can't move in 1? To me both Nonu and SBW are inside centres not 2nd 5s

You've gone native old chap.

Bit harsh...

Not gonna lie. I reckon at the end of his career Nonu could have moved in a spot and done a job.

Not today! Nonu was pretty pointless for Toulon there.

Mr Mwenda wrote:Not today! Nonu was pretty pointless for Toulon there.

Oh, Nonu's been shit at domestic level for about 3 years. He only pulled it out in the Black Jersey.

Didn't anyone tell Toulon that?

So this is the lot I voted for...

1. C. Down
2. S. Fitzpatrick (C)
3. O. Brown
4. B. Retallick
5. S. Whitelock
6. J. Kaino
7. R. McCaw
8. Z. Brooke
9. A. Smith
10. D. Carter
11. B. Smith
12. M. Nonu
13. C. Smith
14. C. Jane
15. C. Cullen

Coach: G. Henry

Ok, so let's see if we can come up with a pro-era (rest of the) World XV to beat this lot . . .

Off the top of my head we could go with: Monty, Caucau, Habana, BOD, Horan, Wilko, Joost, Parisse, Dallaglio, Dusautoir, Eales, Johnson, Castrogiovanni, Wood, Os.

Was Monty actually any good?

Any chance 'Dallaglio' should read 'Hill', too?

That was just to get the ball rolling. I'd barely posted it than I thought of several other players who perhaps should've been in there. & it's a little hard to judge the 2nd (& 3rd) tier players when we generally only really see them on the big stage at the quadrennial RWCs.

Aye. Parrisse is the great example of that. Obviously a ludicrous talent, but an awful lot flakier than many rugby romantics would admit. It would be really interesting to see him or a prime Castro in a world XV (not a thrown together Barbs side) or All Blacks team.

My World XV would be
Os du Randt
Phil Kearns
Christian Califano
Martin Johnson
John Eales
Abdelatif Benazzi
Richard Hill
Gary Teichmann
Joost van der Westhuizen
Jonny Wilkinson
Jason Robinson
Tim Horan
Brian O'Driscoll
Brian Habana
Leigh Halfpenny

Bench
Keith Woods
Federico Mendez
Jason Leonard
Paul O'Connell
Olivier Magne
George Gregan
Stephen Larkham
Matt Burke

"Abdelatif Benazzi." One of my favorite players. Played for Morocco first. & was a stand-out performer in the French side of 94 which became the first and still only European national team to win a series in NZ, clinching it with what became known as 'the try from the end of the world.' But somehow I thought of him more as an amateur era player - perhaps for that very reason...

Had time to ponder this:

1. Os du Randt
2. Keith Wood
3. Phil Vickery
4. Martin Johnson
5. John Eales (C)
6. Thierry Dusautoir
7. George Smith
8. Gary Teichmann
9. George Gregan
10. Stephen Larkham
11. Ben Cohen
13. Will Greenwood
12. Dan Herbert
14. Bryan Habana
15. Tim Horan

16. Mario Ledesma
17. Trevor Woodman
18. Nicolas Mas
19. Victor Matfield
20. Schalk Burger
21. Peter Stringer
22. Jonny Wilkinson
23. Jason Robinson