RugbyRebels

Seems like the best compromise to me. No CJEU, compromise on future FTA’s* and retain freedom of movement. Call it a score draw.
Given it’s a sensible solution I expect them to f**k it up at the last minute. Taking my tongue out of my cheek, I expect the second ref motion to pass as well.

*assuming we ever get a tech solution to Irish border and the EU do have less incentive under this than the WA. Hopefully we can retain the portion of the political declaration with this commitment.

Mellsblue wrote:Seems like the best compromise to me. No CJEU, compromise on future FTA’s* and retain freedom of movement. Call it a score draw.
Given it’s a sensible solution I expect them to f**k it up at the last minute. Taking my tongue out of my cheek, I expect the second ref motion to pass as well.

*assuming we ever get a tech solution to Irish border and the EU do have less incentive under this than the WA. Hopefully we can retain the portion of the political declaration with this commitment.

Common Market 2.0 doesn't deliver on the referendum.

The "Customs Union" option would, because that ends freedom of movement, which as we all know is Theresa's reddest of red lines.

Zhivago wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Seems like the best compromise to me. No CJEU, compromise on future FTA’s* and retain freedom of movement. Call it a score draw.
Given it’s a sensible solution I expect them to f**k it up at the last minute. Taking my tongue out of my cheek, I expect the second ref motion to pass as well.

*assuming we ever get a tech solution to Irish border and the EU do have less incentive under this than the WA. Hopefully we can retain the portion of the political declaration with this commitment.

Common Market 2.0 doesn't deliver on the referendum.

The "Customs Union" option would, because that ends freedom of movement, which as we all know is Theresa's reddest of red lines.

What about the ability to strike FTA's? That was central to the campaign. Nothing other than Canada+ really delivers on the ref result.

If we’re going to compromise on something, can’t it be the positive and outward looking compromise of not ending free movement rather than the negative of pretty much ending our ability to strike trade deals.

A Customs Union really is the worst of all worlds.

It’s suddenly dawned on me that in the future we can agree an FTA with the EU to include freedom of movement, therefore having the CU and freedom of movement. Machiavellian genius/t**ttery from Clarke depending on your view.

Zhivago wrote: Common Market 2.0 doesn't deliver on the referendum.

That's simply not true.

It's just a lie that gets repeated by the ERG at every opportunity, whilst still being a lie.

Common Market 2.0 leaves us outside the EU, which is what was on the ballot.
It was also promised by a lot of Brexiteers in the run up to the referendum, with even Farage saying that it was more than acceptable.

Ffs.

Mellsblue wrote:Ffs.

Indeed. Four more noes...

We need to chuck them all out and get new ones in. All change!!

The Blue tide holds off the Parliamentary move:
Motion / For / Against
1/15/253
2/37/236
3/33/238
4/10/260

Boles resigns from the Party.
Nige: 'Nothing has changed..Politicians must stop trying to undo our vote....'.

Ian Dunt in good form - https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2019/0 ... d-soft-bre

"They were engaged in a mass act of self-harm. There was no excuse for it at all. They were not limited to one vote. They could select as many options as they liked. And still they could not support one another.

"The only flicker of hope now lies with events on Wednesday. Oliver Letwin, the author of this process, has secured the timetable for another day of indicative votes. It is the last chance saloon. He will need to find an alternate voting system - operating on a preference basis - to try and sift out MPs' least-bad selections from their ideal ones.

But it is up to parliamentarians too. They have seen tonight the damage they've done when they behave as puritanically as the ERG. There is one more chance for them to show a more sensible disposition.

If not, then it ends like Reservoir Dogs: with everyone bleeding out on the floor. They need to wise up - fast - and stop behaving in the manner they criticise their enemies for"

Brewery Trip

Ayes - 267
Noes- 289

In isolation I'm neither surprised nor alarmed the indicative votes have yet to yield much, which is why they should have taken place after the referendum not now. The alarm is we've only just over a week left
Also the party leaders are doing their utmost to disrupt by whipping their MPs, it's still firmly party over country

Banquo wrote:Brewery Trip

Ayes - 267
Noes- 289

More like:

Leaving the Brewery
Ayes - 180
Noes - 382

Having an Alcoholic Drink
Ayes - 272
Noes - 280

Puja

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:Brewery Trip

Ayes - 267
Noes- 289

More like:

Leaving the Brewery
Ayes - 180
Noes - 382

Having an Alcoholic Drink
Ayes - 272
Noes - 280

Puja

If you have to explain a joke....

BTW.....is it definite that for an indicative vote to be taken seriously it needs a true majority, ie 320 votes.

Is it also now true that the WA has so far got the most votes for?

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:Brewery Trip

Ayes - 267
Noes- 289

More like:

Leaving the Brewery
Ayes - 180
Noes - 382

Having an Alcoholic Drink
Ayes - 272
Noes - 280

Puja

If you have to explain a joke....

No, no, I got it. I just thought mine was funnier.

Puja

Robert Saunders on twitter saying exactly what i'm thinking now -

A lot of MPs looked exhausted & emotionally wrung out tonight. They're making hellishly difficult choices under a hail of emotional & physical abuse, while the doomsday clock ticks down to midnight. No one thinks clearly in these conditions. For all our sakes, we need a time out.
We are trying to cram into three days a debate that should have begun three years ago: exploring what the options might be, what trade-offs they involve and whether they command a majority. It hardly matters any longer who's to blame: this is an insane way to decide our future.
No one *wants* another year of this, but it's more important to do this well than to do it quickly. So let's extend for a year & use the summer - & the EP elections - for a serious ventilation of the options. Citizens Assemblies, town-hall meetings, seminars for MPs - the lot.
Let's do what we should have done in the first place & open up a serious public debate, which accepts that we're choosing from imperfect alternatives - all of which (including Remain) come with costs & trade-offs. Then let's try again, refreshed & better informed, in the Autumn.

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Puja wrote:
More like:

Leaving the Brewery
Ayes - 180
Noes - 382

Having an Alcoholic Drink
Ayes - 272
Noes - 280

Puja

If you have to explain a joke....

No, no, I got it. I just thought mine was funnier.

Puja

Its the way you tell em, or not.

I apologise, I just do not understand what is going on. Even if I read the news pretty regularly.

What is Parliament voting about these days?

And isn't all this voting late? It should have happened at least 1 year ago. Where was the time lost?

And why is Boris Johnson still a significant political figure? When I left the UK he was a comedian, basically.

gransoporro wrote:a- I apologise, I just do not understand what is going on. Even if I read the news pretty regularly.

b- What is Parliament voting about these days?

And isn't all this voting late? It should have happened at least 1 year ago. Where was the time lost?

c- And why is Boris Johnson still a significant political figure? When I left the UK he was a comedian, basically.

a- neither do we, really. Its when plebiscite meets representative democracy, and its fckd our politicians brains.
b- what 'sort of brexit', but its only happening now because the MPs didnt like the treaty 'brokered' by Theresa May, rebelled a bit and took the agenda their way. Unfortunately they don't like what they have proposed to themselves either
c- God knows, he's a massive twat.

Gawd...bring the popcorn

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47794235

Jesus. There's just too much there to mock. I've got a log-jam of sarcastic quips trying to force their way out of my brain like the Stooges stuck in a door.

Puja

Local councils have been told by central govt that they can start making plans to hold EU elections and that any reasonable expenses will be reimbursed should the election not go ahead. Only yesterday the official line from no10 was that there would definitely not be EU elections.

Just got in; surely I've got this wrong. Please tell me I've got this wrong.

So... She's asking the EU for an extension, but not giving them any reason to.
She's inviting Corbyn to talk about compromise, but A] not actually telling him this, and B] compromise JUST include her existing working agreement, and all of her red lines, and no new negotiating.

WTF?

I'm starting to wonder if any of us are ever going to see how this ends.

I’m no expert, and I’m not even UKish, but all this canvassing of options for Brexit by Parliament, and a cross-party leadership summit, aimed at finding bipartisan support for a workable, broadly acceptable way to undergo this major, practically irreversible constitutional change, shouldn’t this have been done as soon as possible after the referendum, if not before?

Only getting on to it now seems a bit like an unseemly, last-minute Charlie Foxtrot.