RugbyRebels

Stom wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:The weirdest/funniest thing is the looney tunes like Francois chucking Brexit away. They genuinely have found religion.

I was going to agree with you and then I found this:



Calling Francois looney tunes is probably the biggest compliment he has ever received.

You know that he's Hungarian...and he can't speak Hungarian properly either It's like he can't actually speak at all!

That would probably be for the best.

But honestly, if the indicative vote comes back with Beckett's choice, and it runs off against May's WA on Tuesday and wins...

I mean...the government will reject it and then what?

If parliament is ignored passing an indicative vote then parliament needs to pass something that isn't merely indicative. The government cannot simply ignore parliament as I'm sure the civil service will have made very clear to anyone daft enough to think they can, but parliament has to get its own shoes dirty and not rely on being suggestive

Digby wrote:If parliament is ignored passing an indicative vote then parliament needs to pass something that isn't merely indicative. The government cannot simply ignore parliament as I'm sure the civil service will have made very clear to anyone daft enough to think they can, but parliament has to get its own shoes dirty and not rely on being suggestive

Agreed. To stretch the metaphor, there's a lot with cold feet, who don't want to even feel remotely accountable should we eventually leave. So an awful lot are sitting on their hands.
Fact is, most MPs don't want us to leave at all, and they continue to be disingenuous.

Anyone know what this red flag is?

Parachute Regiment.

Sandydragon wrote:Parachute Regiment.

Cheers Sandy

Sandydragon wrote:Parachute Regiment.

They just dropped by I guess

Banquo wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Parachute Regiment.

They just dropped by I guess

If we do go over the cliff at least they'll be able to advise you don't need a parachute to go skydiving, you only need a parachute to do it twice

Every time I see three or more people on TV talking about Brexit, it turns into a slanging match with four different opinions.....and generally the opinions are based on a fallacy and/or a lack of understanding. MPs are the worst culprits for this- how can they look in the mirror when they don't understand the basics of their role; the quality of your average politician is appallingly low, and this has been brutally exposed in all this. How can they recover public trust after all this has been laid bare?

The public are in large part to blame for all this. Typically we free ride the process, we don't get involved in selecting or lobbying MPs, oftentime people don't even vote

Digby wrote:The public are in large part to blame for all this. Typically we free ride the process, we don't get involved in selecting or lobbying MPs, oftentime people don't even vote

True-Every nation gets the government it deserves, as someone said.

Banquo wrote:Every time I see three or more people on TV talking about Brexit, it turns into a slanging match with four different opinions.....and generally the opinions are based on a fallacy and/or a lack of understanding. MPs are the worst culprits for this- how can they look in the mirror when they don't understand the basics of their role; the quality of your average politician is appallingly low, and this has been brutally exposed in all this. How can they recover public trust after all this has been laid bare?

Occasionally I listen to a half sane MP and think things aren’t too bad. Then Bill Cash opens his mouth.

Sandydragon wrote:

Banquo wrote:Every time I see three or more people on TV talking about Brexit, it turns into a slanging match with four different opinions.....and generally the opinions are based on a fallacy and/or a lack of understanding. MPs are the worst culprits for this- how can they look in the mirror when they don't understand the basics of their role; the quality of your average politician is appallingly low, and this has been brutally exposed in all this. How can they recover public trust after all this has been laid bare?

Occasionally I listen to a half sane MP and think things aren’t too bad. Then Bill Cash opens his mouth.

It is very occasional. I like Stella Creasey, and then she suggests a people's assembly.....

I think a general election is very much on the cards. I doubt that the result will change much as there is so much confusion amongst MPs at the moment but I just can’t see the government surviving this.

Monday, 1 April: MPs hold another set of votes on various Brexit options to see if they can agree on a way forward

Wednesday, 3 April: Potentially another round of so-called "indicative votes"

Wednesday, 10 April : Emergency summit of EU leaders to consider any UK request for further extension

Friday, 12 April: Brexit day, if UK does not seek/EU does not grant further delay

23-26 May: European Parliamentary elections

The Government has already failed; if they fail even more,
they need to step aside.

In news that I'm sure will shock everyone, the Tories appear to split on the prospect of a snap election at the moment: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-47763034


Of course, a new GE (breaking 2 of May's promises, which is obviously so much better than breaking one by holding a 2nd ref.) Is nothing to do with what's good for the country, and would do absolutely nothing to solve the current clusterfuck. It will split her own party anlittle worse than they already are (or is she relying on the old line that when push comes to shove, conservatives fall in line?). But that it would split labour and drag them down to the same level.

I guess playing party politics is better than playing civil warfare, but... for once it's be good if an MP paid some thought to the good of the country

Which Tyler wrote:In news that I'm sure will shock everyone, the Tories appear to split on the prospect of a snap election at the moment: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-47763034


Of course, a new GE (breaking 2 of May's promises, which is obviously so much better than breaking one by holding a 2nd ref.) Is nothing to do with what's good for the country, and would do absolutely nothing to solve the current clusterfuck. It will split her own party anlittle worse than they already are (or is she relying on the old line that when push comes to shove, conservatives fall in line?). But that it would split labour and drag them down to the same level.

I guess playing party politics is better than playing civil warfare, but... for once it's be good if an MP paid some thought to the good of the country

I can't think of any option now which isn't bad for the country in some shape or form- to me, the least bad option is to just revoke a50 and say bollox to the leavers- they've had their chance to vote the WA through and leave the EU and chose not to. Then send all the (Remain) MPs back to their (leave) constituencies to explain why they think staying in is best.

Referendum- bad; GE- bad; no-deal- bad; WA plus customs union- pointless. Staying in- good.

Galfon wrote:
The Government has already failed; if they fail even more,
they need to step aside.

To be replaced by?? You reckon Labour have anymore of a united front. They 3 line whipped for the indicative votes and still chaos.
Likely we’d get another hung parliament, small majority at best, and the status quo remains. Worst case scenario is that UKIP or Farage’s party get a handful of seats and we have the terrible situation that a far right party gains legitimacy at the national level.

Mellsblue wrote:

Galfon wrote:
The Government has already failed; if they fail even more,
they need to step aside.

To be replaced by?? You reckon Labour have anymore of a united front. They 3 line whipped for the indicative votes and still chaos.
Likely we’d get another hung parliament, small majority at best, and the status quo remains. Worst case scenario is that UKIP or Farage’s party get a handful of seats and we have the terrible situation that a far right party gains legitimacy at the national level.

That ship has already sailed - they'll get 5-12 seats at the next election whenever it's held, just simply from the "BRETRAYL!!1!" loonies. There's an argument that it'd be better to have that than it would be to have the mainstream right party lurching over that way to try and attract the loony vote.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Galfon wrote:
The Government has already failed; if they fail even more,
they need to step aside.

To be replaced by?? You reckon Labour have anymore of a united front. They 3 line whipped for the indicative votes and still chaos.
Likely we’d get another hung parliament, small majority at best, and the status quo remains. Worst case scenario is that UKIP or Farage’s party get a handful of seats and we have the terrible situation that a far right party gains legitimacy at the national level.

That ship has already sailed - they'll get 5-12 seats at the next election whenever it's held, just simply from the "BRETRAYL!!1!" loonies. There's an argument that it'd be better to have that than it would be to have the mainstream right party lurching over that way to try and attract the loony vote.

Puja

Or we just enact a Brexit that respects the referendum result and avoid the possibility completely. It’s also a good idea not to have UKIP/Farage in parliament whilst we are still negotiating our exit. Everyone has had a big enough meltdown about the DUP holding any sway. Imagine if UKIP hold the balance of power, as they do similar parties in liberal democracies very similar to ours.
Can we please look outside of the Brexit vortex.

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: To be replaced by?? You reckon Labour have anymore of a united front. They 3 line whipped for the indicative votes and still chaos.
Likely we’d get another hung parliament, small majority at best, and the status quo remains. Worst case scenario is that UKIP or Farage’s party get a handful of seats and we have the terrible situation that a far right party gains legitimacy at the national level.

That ship has already sailed - they'll get 5-12 seats at the next election whenever it's held, just simply from the "BRETRAYL!!1!" loonies. There's an argument that it'd be better to have that than it would be to have the mainstream right party lurching over that way to try and attract the loony vote.

Puja

Or we just enact a Brexit that respects the referendum result and avoid the possibility completely. It’s also a good idea not to have UKIP/Farage in parliament whilst we are still negotiating our exit. Everyone has had a big enough meltdown about the DUP holding any sway. Imagine if UKIP hold the balance of power, as they do similar parties in liberal democracies very similar to ours.
Can we please look outside of the Brexit vortex.

Oh. Cool. How?

Puja

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:
That ship has already sailed - they'll get 5-12 seats at the next election whenever it's held, just simply from the "BRETRAYL!!1!" loonies. There's an argument that it'd be better to have that than it would be to have the mainstream right party lurching over that way to try and attract the loony vote.

Puja

Or we just enact a Brexit that respects the referendum result and avoid the possibility completely. It’s also a good idea not to have UKIP/Farage in parliament whilst we are still negotiating our exit. Everyone has had a big enough meltdown about the DUP holding any sway. Imagine if UKIP hold the balance of power, as they do similar parties in liberal democracies very similar to ours.
Can we please look outside of the Brexit vortex.

Oh. Cool. How?

Puja

May's WA is the obvious answer.

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: To be replaced by?? You reckon Labour have anymore of a united front. They 3 line whipped for the indicative votes and still chaos.
Likely we’d get another hung parliament, small majority at best, and the status quo remains. Worst case scenario is that UKIP or Farage’s party get a handful of seats and we have the terrible situation that a far right party gains legitimacy at the national level.

That ship has already sailed - they'll get 5-12 seats at the next election whenever it's held, just simply from the "BRETRAYL!!1!" loonies. There's an argument that it'd be better to have that than it would be to have the mainstream right party lurching over that way to try and attract the loony vote.

Puja

Or we just enact a Brexit that respects the referendum result and avoid the possibility completely. It’s also a good idea not to have UKIP/Farage in parliament whilst we are still negotiating our exit. Everyone has had a big enough meltdown about the DUP holding any sway. Imagine if UKIP hold the balance of power, as they do similar parties in liberal democracies very similar to ours.
Can we please look outside of the Brexit vortex.

Despite being an avid remoaner, I agree(d) that we should try and respect not only the referendum result, but the 2017 GE result which imo endorsed leave; however, the Leave camp plus reluctant respecters had that chance three times and turned it down because of an utter refusal to budge a nanometer. Leaving then negotiating a 'new customs union deal' is just unbelievably pointless, and those proposing it are being dishonest. Given the leavers/respecters have dropped the ball, parliament needs now to make the case for staying and not cop out by throwing it back to the people, who tbh haven't much of a clue

Mellsblue wrote:

Galfon wrote:
The Government has already failed; if they fail even more,
they need to step aside.

To be replaced by?? You reckon Labour have anymore of a united front. They 3 line whipped for the indicative votes and still chaos.

Wasn't advocating a wasteful GE, just frustration at the Executive.