RugbyRebels

MPs approve the business motion by 331 to 287, and will now start the main debate on Brexit options.

Speaker John Bercow announces that he has selected the following eight choices:

No Deal (B) – John Baron (Conservative)

Agrees to leave the EU on 12 April without a deal.

Common market 2.0 (D) – Nick Boles (Conservative)

Government joins the European Economic Area (EEA) through the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), and negotiates a temporary customs union until alternative arrangements can be found.

EFTA and EEA (H) – George Eustice (Conservative)

Remains in the European Economic Area (EEA), and applies to re-join the European Free Trade Association (EFTA).

Declines to form a customs union but seeks “agreement on new protocols relating to the Northern Ireland border and agri-food trade”.

Customs union (J) – Ken Clarke (Conservative)

Enshrine the objective to form a customs union in primary legislation.

Labour’s alternative plan (K) – Jeremy Corbyn

Negotiate changes to the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration to secure Labour’s position, and pass these objectives into law.

Revocation to avoid no deal (L) – Joanna Cherry (SNP)

If the Withdrawal (Agreement) Bill has not been passed before exit day, the government will ask MPs to approve no deal. If this does not pass, the government will revoke Article 50.

Confirmatory public vote (M) – Margaret Beckett (Labour)

Government cannot implement or ratify the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration unless and until they have been approved in a referendum.

Contingent preferential arrangements (O) – Marcus Fysh (Conservative)

Malthouse Plan B: The UK makes its budgetary contributions to the EU to the end of 2020 and agrees with the EU a period of two years in which UK goods have full access to the EU.

over and out

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:
I'm assuming house is discussing some form of motion and thus they're amendments being described as options. Interestingly as some of these amendments have already been dismissed by parliament in this session I'm assuming further there's already a motion passed to ignore that and clearly cannot have been too traumatic an experience, and one compares this with complaints about Bercow saying no to meaningless vote 3 absent of alteration

And again I don’t think the executive can cry foul as they're entitled to bring their own bills and amendments but have chosen not to. Also if the government is allowed to cry foul could they then do so for any amendments submitted on future government bills? The executive isn't exactly shy of power in all this

My point is the composition of the list amendments/options will affect the voting bias.

That's an ongoing issue with the role the speaker has, but looking at the list there's something almost for everyone so it would seem it's not overly biased. Also if parliament has an issue with the role of the role of the speaker when it comes to amendments they possibly haven't looked into it for so long it's hard to claim they've been had now

This is a novel way of doing things, so that's what I was waffling on about, however, as you say, nothing to be bothered about now as there are so many Options.

Banquo wrote: This is a novel way of doing things, so that's what I was waffling on about, however, as you say, nothing to be bothered about now as there are so many Options.

Having indicative votes and the method of voting is novel, but the speaker selecting which amendments pass forward for debate isn't anything unusual

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Stom wrote:
OK, but some of them are a bit...batshit. Basically anything the EU has already said "NO" to should be taken off.

Why?

Because there's no point in gaining a majority for a fantasy - we've spent enough time doing that. The one that's "May's deal without the backstop" can be binned straight away.

Puja

I’m not suggesting they vote for a unicorn shaped cake but there may be some more leeway if we can go to them with something that can guarantee a parliamentary majority, will avoid no deal and avoid us taking part in the EU elections.

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: This is a novel way of doing things, so that's what I was waffling on about, however, as you say, nothing to be bothered about now as there are so many Options.

Having indicative votes and the method of voting is novel, but the speaker selecting which amendments pass forward for debate isn't anything unusual

That’s enough novel gazing

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote: This is a novel way of doing things, so that's what I was waffling on about, however, as you say, nothing to be bothered about now as there are so many Options.

Having indicative votes and the method of voting is novel, but the speaker selecting which amendments pass forward for debate isn't anything unusual

That’s enough novel gazing

A recent report noted the complexity of language in a famous political work The Grapes of Wrath was comparable to the Mr Men & Little Miss series. I wonder which our MPs are more inclined to ponder on?

Lol or FFS whatever is your poison. So they can't agree on anything. Tell you what...lets have another vote.

We are heading for no deal....or long extension.

So Customs Union ... that's like the Turkey option in this graphic.

Every time I think we've hit Peak-May, she finds a new and exciting way to try and push things till later. This decoupling of the Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration is brazen gaming of the exact letter of rules that the EU set over the extension and is literally being done for the sole purpose of buying her more time in which to avoid doing things.

There are phD students looking on in awe at this quality of procrastination.

Puja

Puja wrote:Every time I think we've hit Peak-May, she finds a new and exciting way to try and push things till later. This decoupling of the Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration is brazen gaming of the exact letter of rules that the EU set over the extension and is literally being done for the sole purpose of buying her more time in which to avoid doing things.

There are phD students looking on in awe at this quality of procrastination.

Puja

In defence of her she couldn't have been clearer the withdrawal agreement and political declaration were inextricably linked and thus weren't to be separated. And in further defence she hasn't yet cancelled the vote once the whips confirm they haven't got the votes with a cabal of erg diehards and the DUP holding out

cashead wrote:So is it mid-April now, then?

If today’s vote isn’t passed, it’s 12th April no deal unless something is agreed by mps at some point.

Digby wrote:

Puja wrote:Every time I think we've hit Peak-May, she finds a new and exciting way to try and push things till later. This decoupling of the Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration is brazen gaming of the exact letter of rules that the EU set over the extension and is literally being done for the sole purpose of buying her more time in which to avoid doing things.

There are phD students looking on in awe at this quality of procrastination.

Puja

In defence of her she couldn't have been clearer the withdrawal agreement and political declaration were inextricably linked and thus weren't to be separated. And in further defence she hasn't yet cancelled the vote once the whips confirm they haven't got the votes with a cabal of erg diehards and the DUP holding out

Well it’s either some strategy no one has seen through, or she remains the epitome of ham fistedness; I’d been lead to understand the DUP were set to abstain on vote for whole deal, so she has managed to again fck them off (no bad thing in isolation). She will clearly lose this again- unless there is a Labour rebellion, hinted at by John Mann yesterday (up to 70 are said to be desperate for Brexit in any form other than no deal). Shambolic doesn’t begin to capture the Mays basic management, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of trying to do something ‘challenging’

Fraid so
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... 646-_mtvtE

Put that against a similar venting of the spleen from the Dail Mail, look for the middle ground and you might be near to the truth.

To be honest, it is the current situation writ large. Overly emotional, light on facts and of no use whatsoever in finding an end result.

I struggle to think of a sector of society that hasn’t acted like a hormonal, pubescent teenager for the last 2/3 years.

Mellsblue wrote:
I struggle to think of a sector of society that hasn’t acted like a hormonal, pubescent teenager for the last 2/3 years.

The hormonal pubescent teenagers noting they didn’t get a say in this, noting the change impacts them more than all those about to die who voted for it, and asking politely if it'd be possible from them to have a say in their future

Digby wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:
I struggle to think of a sector of society that hasn’t acted like a hormonal, pubescent teenager for the last 2/3 years.

The hormonal pubescent teenagers noting they didn’t get a say in this, noting the change impacts them more than all those about to die who voted for it, and asking politely if it'd be possible from them to have a say in their future

Thank you for proving my point.

Oh, yeah......ha!

and round we go again. Only lost by 58 this time

No deal becomes more real. Got til April 12th to come up with something the EU will accept.

Banquo wrote:and round we go again. Only lost by 58 this time

No deal becomes more real. Got til April 12th to come up with something the EU will accept.

EU council meeting on April 10th is likely the last chance to do anything other than revoke or crash

The farce continues......
Monday looks to be a very significant day.
This motion might be key if it gets debated and if it passes - "If we can't agree a deal we want:
1. We ask for an extension
2. If the EU says no there's no time for a referendum so
3. Parliament chooses between either (1) No Deal or (2) Revoking, with a commitment to a public inquiry into what we want and a possible further notification"

I know that our government doesn't really put much stock in "things the EU say"; and are endlessly surprised that "things the EU say" end up being "Things the EU mean"; but... if we want an extension, it has to be FOR something.
It will either be to negotiate a new deal without May's red lines; or it will be for a general election, or it will be for a referendum. For any of those, we're talking an extension measured in years.

I wouldn't put much hope in revoking article 50 in order to trigger it again in a year or two and negotiate from a more coherent position - I don't see the EU actually being willing to enter negotiations at all if we do that, there's no point in negotiating with someone you simply can't trust; and the rest of the world would probably agree. I would think that if we revoke Art 50; and trigger it again within 20-odd years; we'll be on WTO terms with the entire globe, or accepting terrible deals until we've earned international trust again.

The weirdest/funniest thing is the looney tunes like Francois chucking Brexit away. They genuinely have found religion.

Banquo wrote:The weirdest/funniest thing is the looney tunes like Francois chucking Brexit away. They genuinely have found religion.

I was going to agree with you and then I found this:



Calling Francois looney tunes is probably the biggest compliment he has ever received.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:The weirdest/funniest thing is the looney tunes like Francois chucking Brexit away. They genuinely have found religion.

I was going to agree with you and then I found this:



Calling Francois looney tunes is probably the biggest compliment he has ever received.

True, but Uri Geller was old news looney tunes; one of the greatest 'discoveries' for me, with so many MPs becoming 'visible' is how ludicrous, stupid, vain, and indeed stupid again a large number are. Francois is something I thought impossible, a Farage tribute and parody act.

Mellsblue wrote:

Banquo wrote:The weirdest/funniest thing is the looney tunes like Francois chucking Brexit away. They genuinely have found religion.

I was going to agree with you and then I found this:



Calling Francois looney tunes is probably the biggest compliment he has ever received.

You know that he's Hungarian...and he can't speak Hungarian properly either It's like he can't actually speak at all!