RugbyRebels

Banquo wrote:Have you read the guidance on face masks, out of interest? I did, because obviously my staff do.

Not for a few weeks; so I suspect it's changed since I last read it.

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:Have you read the guidance on face masks, out of interest? I did, because obviously my staff do.

Not for a few weeks; so I suspect it's changed since I last read it.

5th June is the latest.

and yes to your edit.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:we haven't got good info on wearing masks yet, as in what materials, made how, stored/disposed how, washed how, length for wearing before replacing and so on. so even now the advice hasn't come too late, it's still some mix of the inadequate and the incompetent

also whilst we have info on hand washing there's not much being said about length of fingernails, fake nails, whether wearing bracelets (including watches) is a good idea, what of rings?

Are you talking about work?

people being anywhere they might interact with others

Dexamethasone - anti-inflammatory, already widely available - found to be beneficial in serious cases.(Oxford U ).A welcome piece to the jigsaw it looks..

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281

Galfon wrote:Dexamethasone - anti-inflammatory, already widely available - found to be beneficial in serious cases.(Oxford U ).A welcome piece to the jigsaw it looks..

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-53061281

Just read that, some welcome news in reducing the impact for some people.

I think the myth of market forces working for the public good has been blown apart. Both the US and UK have had a hands-off mantra in government for a while, and it has just been comical watching both sets of fuckheads try to spin the virus away with empty management speak. In the US the complete lack of a public health system has shown exactly how good for the public the private sector is in the health care field. I am a bit shocked at how inept the UK has been in this, but as I familiarise myself with the players in the tragicomedy it is perhaps not so surprising. Shame it is not possible to vaccinate against toxic ideology. When the climate starts seriously fucking with food and water supply, I hope idiots like these are long gone.

morepork wrote:I think the myth of market forces working for the public good has been blown apart. Both the US and UK have had a hands-off mantra in government for a while, and it has just been comical watching both sets of fuckheads try to spin the virus away with empty management speak. In the US the complete lack of a public health system has shown exactly how good for the public the private sector is in the health care field. I am a bit shocked at how inept the UK has been in this, but as I familiarise myself with the players in the tragicomedy it is perhaps not so surprising. Shame it is not possible to vaccinate against toxic ideology. When the climate starts seriously fucking with food and water supply, I hope idiots like these are long gone.

The NHS may be public sector but this government handed most additional Covid-19 work to the private sector, whether they have any relevant expertise or not.

New ONS numbers today...
Up to 5 Jun, we have:
Positive test UK Covid-19 deaths: 40,261
All UK Covid-19 deaths (ONS number): 51,804
So the total UK number is 29% higher than the government number.

Assuming this ratio holds to date, we have as of 16 Jun:
Positive test UK Covid-19 deaths: 41,969
All UK Covid-19 deaths (extrapolated): 54,002

Ultimately a more important number is the excess deaths for any cause, if we assume Covid-19 is the main driver of the excess.
Recently, the excess deaths per week have approximately equalled the "Covid-19 death certificate" ONS number,
So to estimate the excess deaths to 16 Jun I use the 5 Jun excess number and add the subsequent estimated ONS number:
Excess deaths compared with 5 year average to 5 Jun: 64,348
Estimated increase in all UK Covid-19 deaths from 5 Jun to 16 Jun: 54,002 - 51,804 = 2,198
Therefore:
All UK excess deaths (presumably due to Covid-19) to 16 Jun: 66,545
which is 59% higher than the government number.

Last week's prediction:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:Prediction for 5 Jun (based on 29 May ONS + 5 Jun gov numbers):
All UK, positive tests only: actual = 40,261
All UK, deaths involving Covid-19: prediction: 52,273
All UK, excess deaths: prediction: 65,696

Comparing with today's actual figures (for 5 Jun):
All UK, positive tests only: actual = 40,261
All UK, deaths involving Covid-19: prediction: 52,273 actual: 51,804 actual/prediction: -0.9%
All UK, excess deaths: prediction: 65,696 actual: 64,348 actual/prediction: -2.1%

Son of Mathonwy wrote: The NHS may be public sector but this government handed most additional Covid-19 work to the private sector, whether they have any relevant expertise or not.

Granted there are examples of this. However, luckily, the private sector did step in with great success to bail out the public sector, whether it was the PPE supply chain in the U.K. (along with the army) or the testing capacity in Germany - something PHE failed to do and is one of the reasons we’ve been playing catch up for so long. It is the case that the private sector stepped into numerous vacuums they had no experience in but these were also in areas where the public sector had no experience and, crucially, no capacity to perform.
As always, a mixture of private and public sector is best.

Mellsblue wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: The NHS may be public sector but this government handed most additional Covid-19 work to the private sector, whether they have any relevant expertise or not.

Granted there are examples of this. However, luckily, the private sector did step in with great success to bail out the public sector, whether it was the PPE supply chain in the U.K. (along with the army) or the testing capacity in Germany - something PHE failed to do and is one of the reasons we’ve been playing catch up for so long. It is the case that the private sector stepped into numerous vacuums they had no experience in but these were also in areas where the public sector had no experience and, crucially, no capacity to perform.
As always, a mixture of private and public sector is best.

The make up of that mixture has been problematic. The appropriate private sector resources more or less have to be compelled to act appropriately. The US has the Defence Production Act (which the government declined to use), and I'm sure the UK has something similar and I no not if it was used, but from where I'm standing it looks as though you got a gaggle of the wrong private sector geeks together for the job.

morepork wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote: The NHS may be public sector but this government handed most additional Covid-19 work to the private sector, whether they have any relevant expertise or not.

Granted there are examples of this. However, luckily, the private sector did step in with great success to bail out the public sector, whether it was the PPE supply chain in the U.K. (along with the army) or the testing capacity in Germany - something PHE failed to do and is one of the reasons we’ve been playing catch up for so long. It is the case that the private sector stepped into numerous vacuums they had no experience in but these were also in areas where the public sector had no experience and, crucially, no capacity to perform.
As always, a mixture of private and public sector is best.

The make up of that mixture has been problematic. The appropriate private sector resources more or less have to be compelled to act appropriately. The US has the Defence Production Act (which the government declined to use), and I'm sure the UK has something similar and I no not if it was used, but from where I'm standing it looks as though you got a gaggle of the wrong private sector geeks together for the job.

Not sure you can blame it on ‘private sector’ geeks. There were plenty of geeks from both sectors. From what I’ve read, it sounds a lot like the wrong ones, with their egos, in the wrong places.
Lack of a (effective) children’s advocate anywhere - SAGE or cabinet - possibly coming back to haunt a generation, for example.

No, I'm blaming the government for bringing in the wrong geeks. A painful case in point over here was Jared Kushner recruiting a group of recently graduated tech and business cheese dicks to coordinate PPE and medical supply sourcing. They basically started sucking each others dicks and recommended dodgy suppliers based on who they knew through their own insular little network. The Kush pushed their recommendations through. This resulted in a farcical loss of control of the situation and the fleecing of millions of dollars of federal and state tax revenues.

morepork wrote:I think the myth of market forces working for the public good has been blown apart. Both the US and UK have had a hands-off mantra in government for a while, and it has just been comical watching both sets of fuckheads try to spin the virus away with empty management speak. In the US the complete lack of a public health system has shown exactly how good for the public the private sector is in the health care field. I am a bit shocked at how inept the UK has been in this, but as I familiarise myself with the players in the tragicomedy it is perhaps not so surprising. Shame it is not possible to vaccinate against toxic ideology. When the climate starts seriously fucking with food and water supply, I hope idiots like these are long gone.

Reading an article today where a bloke leaves a US hospital after a substantial period on a ventilator tombs presented with a $1.2 million bill. Thankfully his insurance pick up 95% so that’s a only
about $60k that this 70 year old needs to find.

Sandydragon wrote:

morepork wrote:I think the myth of market forces working for the public good has been blown apart. Both the US and UK have had a hands-off mantra in government for a while, and it has just been comical watching both sets of fuckheads try to spin the virus away with empty management speak. In the US the complete lack of a public health system has shown exactly how good for the public the private sector is in the health care field. I am a bit shocked at how inept the UK has been in this, but as I familiarise myself with the players in the tragicomedy it is perhaps not so surprising. Shame it is not possible to vaccinate against toxic ideology. When the climate starts seriously fucking with food and water supply, I hope idiots like these are long gone.

Reading an article today where a bloke leaves a US hospital after a substantial period on a ventilator tombs presented with a $1.2 million bill. Thankfully his insurance pick up 95% so that’s a only
about $60k that this 70 year old needs to find.

Like I said, private health has fallen on it's arse during this...

morepork wrote:No, I'm blaming the government for bringing in the wrong geeks. A painful case in point over here was Jared Kushner recruiting a group of recently graduated tech and business cheese dicks to coordinate PPE and medical supply sourcing. They basically started sucking each others dicks and recommended dodgy suppliers based on who they knew through their own insular little network. The Kush pushed their recommendations through. This resulted in a farcical loss of control of the situation and the fleecing of millions of dollars of federal and state tax revenues.

Not going to argue with that but this all started as private sector bad v public sector good. That’s certainly not the case in the UK’s response. Both have been both good and bad.
If anything, the most detrimental piece of ‘dick sucking’ in the U.K. was probably PHE refusal to use private sector labs for testing. That’s not to say private sector companies didn’t feck up as well but that it’s not just public sector = good and private sector = bad.

I never said it was. It is the governments mantra of The Market Will Cure All that galls. Someone has to drive the bus.

Mellsblue wrote:

morepork wrote:No, I'm blaming the government for bringing in the wrong geeks. A painful case in point over here was Jared Kushner recruiting a group of recently graduated tech and business cheese dicks to coordinate PPE and medical supply sourcing. They basically started sucking each others dicks and recommended dodgy suppliers based on who they knew through their own insular little network. The Kush pushed their recommendations through. This resulted in a farcical loss of control of the situation and the fleecing of millions of dollars of federal and state tax revenues.

Not going to argue with that but this all started as private sector bad v public sector good. That’s certainly not the case in the UK’s response. Both have been both good and bad.
If anything, the most detrimental piece of ‘dick sucking’ in the U.K. was probably PHE refusal to use private sector labs for testing. That’s not to say private sector companies didn’t feck up as well but that it’s not just public sector = good and private sector = bad.

Indeed. A sensible health care system uses both.

ding-ding, round 2 in China..
Probably a different virus strain (maybe the nastier Euro version), with possible link to imported meat or salmon.
Herd approach appears to be more rounding people up and bussing them to selected Hotels..
Testing already in overdrive - we might therefore see a spike with steep curves on both sides.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/16/beijing- ... -12862506/

Sandydragon wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

morepork wrote:No, I'm blaming the government for bringing in the wrong geeks. A painful case in point over here was Jared Kushner recruiting a group of recently graduated tech and business cheese dicks to coordinate PPE and medical supply sourcing. They basically started sucking each others dicks and recommended dodgy suppliers based on who they knew through their own insular little network. The Kush pushed their recommendations through. This resulted in a farcical loss of control of the situation and the fleecing of millions of dollars of federal and state tax revenues.

Not going to argue with that but this all started as private sector bad v public sector good. That’s certainly not the case in the UK’s response. Both have been both good and bad.
If anything, the most detrimental piece of ‘dick sucking’ in the U.K. was probably PHE refusal to use private sector labs for testing. That’s not to say private sector companies didn’t feck up as well but that it’s not just public sector = good and private sector = bad.

Indeed. A sensible health care system uses both.

Though, maybe leaving a public sector organisation to develop an app wasn’t the best plan ever.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/contact ... ight-trial

Yet another lazy market circle jerk. FFS

Stones of granite wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Mellsblue wrote: Not going to argue with that but this all started as private sector bad v public sector good. That’s certainly not the case in the UK’s response. Both have been both good and bad.
If anything, the most detrimental piece of ‘dick sucking’ in the U.K. was probably PHE refusal to use private sector labs for testing. That’s not to say private sector companies didn’t feck up as well but that it’s not just public sector = good and private sector = bad.

Indeed. A sensible health care system uses both.

Though, maybe leaving a public sector organisation to develop an app wasn’t the best plan ever.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/contact ... ight-trial

Because the work outsourced to private companies is all going so well?

Digby wrote:

Stones of granite wrote:

Sandydragon wrote: Indeed. A sensible health care system uses both.

Though, maybe leaving a public sector organisation to develop an app wasn’t the best plan ever.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/contact ... ight-trial

Because the work outsourced to private companies is all going so well?

Perhaps both private and public sector have their pros and cons, that they will inevitably do some things well and some things poorly, and that randomly pointing at good or bad examples doesn’t mean that sector is fatally flawed. Remember when the failed private sector attempt to create a central NHS IT system was proof that all private sector involvement was a huge waste of money and doomed to be late and/or a failure. Well, it’s seems the public sector is also found wanting on a large scale IT project. Perhaps there will be examples of both good and bad from both sectors, wherever you look? I’ve worked in both sectors and had both public and private healthcare and, from my experience, this is true.

Mellsblue wrote:

Digby wrote:

Stones of granite wrote: Though, maybe leaving a public sector organisation to develop an app wasn’t the best plan ever.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/contact ... ight-trial

Because the work outsourced to private companies is all going so well?

Perhaps both private and public sector have their pros and cons, that they will inevitably do some things well and some things poorly, and that randomly pointing at good or bad examples doesn’t mean that sector is fatally flawed. Remember when the failed private sector attempt to create a central NHS IT system was proof that all private sector involvement was a huge waste of money and doomed to be late and/or a failure. Well, it’s seems the public sector is also found wanting on a large scale IT project. Perhaps there will be examples of both good and bad from both sectors, wherever you look? I’ve worked in both sectors and had both public and private healthcare and, from my experience, this is true.

Under normal circumstances, when a private sector organisation fails to deliver consistently, the organisation disappears and is replaced by another. When a public sector organisation fails to deliver consistently, a few scapegoats are sacrificed and normal jogging continues.

NHSX are sh*t. I sit on the local health and social care IT forum (FML), and they couldn't organise....well anything. I'm afraid IT in the NHS is just a dripping roast for private work and public sector workers alike. Why they couldn't just piggy back on someone elses work outside the UK is anyone's guesss.