RugbyRebels

Digby wrote:Given Mr Miller writes/approves those scripts the hope they'd be dignified seems fanciful at best

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juneteenth

The "rally" is scheduled for June 19th....

Surely, not everyone involved in the planning of this klan meeting can be this ignorant. If they aren't ignorant, then, well.

So, the America thread is now talking about British politics, and the COVID thread is now talking about American racism. Anyone want to go talk about COVID in the Snap election thread?

Puja

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Son of Mathonwy wrote:The UK went ahead of Spain in the per capita deaths today, based on the (underestimated) official deaths. So, ignoring tiny San Marino and Andorra, there's only Belgium ahead of us.

In the rolling 7-day average deaths, Sweden leads, then Brazil, then UK, then Peru ... all jostling for position.

Per capita rolling 7-day average: Brazil leads, Sweden & Peru second, Mexico lurches up into fourth, UK fifth.

Chile is the new leader in the 7-day rolling average daily deaths, but that was because of a big catch-up number on the 7th. On the 14th it will presumably fall back in amongst the other Latin American disaster areas. Second is Brazil, then Peru, then Mexico. Sweden and UK continue a gentle descent; I think Moldova may be ahead of us now.

Puja wrote:So, the America thread is now talking about British politics, and the COVID thread is now talking about American racism. Anyone want to go talk about COVID in the Snap election thread?

Puja

Sorry dad.

morepork wrote:

Puja wrote:So, the America thread is now talking about British politics, and the COVID thread is now talking about American racism. Anyone want to go talk about COVID in the Snap election thread?

Puja

Sorry dad.

It was a serious suggestion, before SoM brought us rudely back on topic here with a Covid post.

Puja

I take your point.

The good news keeps coming -
80% of the UK economy was saved in April... we're on our way.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53019360

Galfon wrote:The good news keeps coming -
80% of the UK economy was saved in April... we're on our way.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53019360

But we are about to have one of the biggest economic retractions amongst the world richest countries.

Apparently.

Oxford vaccine trial is recruiting wider age range for testing ('phase 2'), but against a backdrop of decreasing cases in uk.Looks like the hopeful Sep date for readiness may slip.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eu ... story.html

sobering stuff. every part of the UK is lead by incompetents. Yes Johnston and his band of twats in the cabinet need to take the lions share of responsibility, but the reality is that almost everyone involved in local, regional and national administration has blood on their hands from this. the sheer volume of whitewashing required is actually going to be impressive to watch, in a fury inducing way.

similar analysis from around europe, including the hardest hit countries like spain and italy, show that the UK had the worst spread of the virus from at least the main european countries. almost every other country contained the virus better, i.e. their lockdowns were more effective in stopping the spread.

it's easy to point at the powers that be, and that needs to be done, see my previous post, but the UK public has to take our share of the blame too. we've sunk to some point of feeling like we can do whatever we want without worrying about consequences, while squealing about rights or freedoms or some other bullshit that completely ignores collective responsibility. yes, we've been pushed down this road by our politicians and media, but we've gone down it with our eyes wide open.

Donny osmond wrote:sobering stuff. every part of the UK is lead by incompetents. Yes Johnston and his band of twats in the cabinet need to take the lions share of responsibility, but the reality is that almost everyone involved in local, regional and national administration has blood on their hands from this. the sheer volume of whitewashing required is actually going to be impressive to watch, in a fury inducing way.

Possible exception of Ceredigion.

Sandydragon wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:sobering stuff. every part of the UK is lead by incompetents. Yes Johnston and his band of twats in the cabinet need to take the lions share of responsibility, but the reality is that almost everyone involved in local, regional and national administration has blood on their hands from this. the sheer volume of whitewashing required is actually going to be impressive to watch, in a fury inducing way.

Possible exception of Ceredigion.

[emoji1] made me lol, I will happily accept I know naught of the handling of covid in ceredigion. Actually had to Google it as never even heard of it!

Sent from my CPH1951 using Tapatalk

Donny osmond wrote:[
Actually had to Google it as never even heard of it!
Sent from my CPH1951 using Tapatalk

You will have worn a cardy or two when growing up I suspect! ; fantastic coastline, but don't tell anyone....
When this is over ( presumably someone will need to blow full-time ), the figures will be staggering.

Donny osmond wrote:similar analysis from around europe, including the hardest hit countries like spain and italy, show that the UK had the worst spread of the virus from at least the main european countries. almost every other country contained the virus better, i.e. their lockdowns were more effective in stopping the spread.

it's easy to point at the powers that be, and that needs to be done, see my previous post, but the UK public has to take our share of the blame too. we've sunk to some point of feeling like we can do whatever we want without worrying about consequences, while squealing about rights or freedoms or some other bullshit that completely ignores collective responsibility. yes, we've been pushed down this road by our politicians and media, but we've gone down it with our eyes wide open.

To this and your previous post, what could local government, let alone the general public have done when the covid-19 response is planned, coordinated and funded at the national level (which has ignored local expertise until a shamefully late stage)?

Could local government, (with no extra funding) have:
1) accessed the scientific expertise at SAGE or COBRA meetings?
2) ramped up covid-19 testing?
3) created a contact-tracing operation?
4) tested and quarantined new arrivals to the UK?
5) implemented social distancing measures and authorised the police to fine those not complying?

What else are you expecting of the public? They've complied with the restrictions put on them, more so than the government expected. The only significant amount of dangerous activity has been approved by the government, before the lockdown began and for the last month when (for example) workers have been forced back to work, and children back to school.

I'm struggling to see where we share the blame in all of this.

Donny osmond wrote:sobering stuff. every part of the UK is lead by incompetents. Yes Johnston and his band of twats in the cabinet need to take the lions share of responsibility, but the reality is that almost everyone involved in local, regional and national administration has blood on their hands from this. the sheer volume of whitewashing required is actually going to be impressive to watch, in a fury inducing way.

It's a consistent picture across the country because the covid-19 response is consistent across the country, because it's run by central government.

No idea how you can drag local government into this.

Donny osmond wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:sobering stuff. every part of the UK is lead by incompetents. Yes Johnston and his band of twats in the cabinet need to take the lions share of responsibility, but the reality is that almost everyone involved in local, regional and national administration has blood on their hands from this. the sheer volume of whitewashing required is actually going to be impressive to watch, in a fury inducing way.

Possible exception of Ceredigion.

[emoji1] made me lol, I will happily accept I know naught of the handling of covid in ceredigion. Actually had to Google it as never even heard of it!

Sent from my CPH1951 using Tapatalk

Interesting article in the Times today about a Local health official who set up a rudimentary track and trace system and kept the infection very low, even accounting for the rural nature of the area.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:

Donny osmond wrote:sobering stuff. every part of the UK is lead by incompetents. Yes Johnston and his band of twats in the cabinet need to take the lions share of responsibility, but the reality is that almost everyone involved in local, regional and national administration has blood on their hands from this. the sheer volume of whitewashing required is actually going to be impressive to watch, in a fury inducing way.

It's a consistent picture across the country because the covid-19 response is consistent across the country, because it's run by central government.

No idea how you can drag local government into this.

That only applies in England.

Interested in folks views on the SAGE minutes?

https://www.gov.uk/search/transparency- ... mergencies

Banquo wrote:Interested in folks views on the SAGE minutes?

https://www.gov.uk/search/transparency- ... mergencies

The May 12th meeting is remarkable for its lack of practical, actionable directives. There is a huge amount of assumption that cannot be validated for lack of accurate data. Pretty much all modeling assumptions are finished with the phrase, "a test, trace, and isolate system needs to be put in place." The same narrative populates the May 1st document, albeit with an increased assumption that testing is the way to go. You can actually see how the acknowledgement that testing is key evolves over time as the epidemiological data hits home, but it comes across as a group of individuals that do not know what to do about it. An ineffectual group of nothing. There is no hard core data driving the discussion away from assumptions. Pretty grim actually.

morepork wrote:

Banquo wrote:Interested in folks views on the SAGE minutes?

https://www.gov.uk/search/transparency- ... mergencies

The May 12th meeting is remarkable for its lack of practical, actionable directives. There is a huge amount of assumption that cannot be validated for lack of accurate data. Pretty much all modeling assumptions are finished with the phrase, "a test, trace, and isolate system needs to be put in place." The same narrative populates the May 1st document, albeit with an increased assumption that testing is the way to go. You can actually see how the acknowledgement that testing is key evolves over time as the epidemiological data hits home, but it comes across as a group of individuals that do not know what to do about it. An ineffectual group of nothing. There is no hard core data driving the discussion away from assumptions. Pretty grim actually.

That's what struck me all the way through from the very start of the documentation. Lack of urgency, understanding, and looking for 'silver bullet evidence' to drive decision making- even a lack of intellectual curiosity. From the 13th March minutes it didn't appear they knew that this was a highly contagious killer that had already landed, my jaw simply dropped. Also, and it might sound trivial, but a key working party working to SAGE is still called SPI-B......the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviours. Its not influenza, chaps; it might be irrelevant, but it seems kind if symbolic- all the planning, all the thinking, was for an influenza type infection. Wrong- and the speed of thinking shown in these documents seems......very, very slow.

It doesn't look great.

Banquo wrote:

morepork wrote:

Banquo wrote:Interested in folks views on the SAGE minutes?

https://www.gov.uk/search/transparency- ... mergencies

The May 12th meeting is remarkable for its lack of practical, actionable directives. There is a huge amount of assumption that cannot be validated for lack of accurate data. Pretty much all modeling assumptions are finished with the phrase, "a test, trace, and isolate system needs to be put in place." The same narrative populates the May 1st document, albeit with an increased assumption that testing is the way to go. You can actually see how the acknowledgement that testing is key evolves over time as the epidemiological data hits home, but it comes across as a group of individuals that do not know what to do about it. An ineffectual group of nothing. There is no hard core data driving the discussion away from assumptions. Pretty grim actually.

That's what struck me all the way through from the very start of the documentation. Lack of urgency, understanding, and looking for 'silver bullet evidence' to drive decision making- even a lack of intellectual curiosity. From the 13th March minutes it didn't appear they knew that this was a highly contagious killer that had already landed, my jaw simply dropped. Also, and it might sound trivial, but a key working party working to SAGE is still called SPI-B......the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviours. Its not influenza, chaps; it might be irrelevant, but it seems kind if symbolic- all the planning, all the thinking, was for an influenza type infection. Wrong- and the speed of thinking shown in these documents seems......very, very slow.

I think the enquiry is going to have a field day. Politicians have a lot to answer for, but the scientists don't get away scot free either. The key bit missing for me is what they were getting from the WHO (I know about the public stuff) what else were they getting that wasn't made public? Why did so many intelligence men and women persist with a view that was so dangerous for so long? Is there something the minutes are telling us or was this a particular form of group think? Why didn't Sage consider a lockdown to be the right tactic when so many other scientists were screaming for it, both the UK and overseas?

Lots of questions.

"But our ability to handle the crisis has been negated by a lacklustre communications strategy that saw the government encourage people to go back to normal, all while the curve was soaring upwards..”

This came from a former Health Minister...
in Chile...the last incumbent has just walked:
https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... o-covid-19

Chile pop. only 19M,
-daily deaths (7-day avge.) 200 & still rising,( uk..170.)
-new cases daily 5660, (uk.1310)

'premature return to normality', 'dynamic lockdowns', 'failing to appreciate levels of poverty & overcrowding' all mentioned.
governments are on a hiding to nothing if they f¥ck up early-doors; losing loved ones or your livelihood, (if you manage to survive) - happy?..

It seems no one wants to get left behind in the unlocking phase. It seems most countries are looking to take risks now.