Brexit delayed

[Banquo]

I'm so sorry that I really don't believe that even when explained again the public will make a good choice. I thought plenty was explained first time round, and the consequences we now see were pretty clear even if at a helicopter level.

While I generally agree that "the people" can't be trusted to make a decision on anything with any particular skill, I'm in favour simply because it seems to be the only way out of this impasse. Parliament can't get a majority for anything and, left to their own devices, will just stumble to No Deal.

Get an ordered preference referendum of "May's deal", "No Deal", "No Brexit," and then we'll have *a* decision and can press forward with that.

Puja

the argument that Brexit is easy has been removed from the table. .

Unfortunately I don't think that's true- to my shame I have some very good mates who voted leave on principle (the EU is shyte and political union a bad idea and economically unworkable and doomed sp lets get out now....theoretical nonsense; the arguments have been spectacular) and are convinced that its Remainer lack of will and incompetence that has brought us here. That's what you read all over soshal meedja too.

[Digby]

As the revoke article 50 petition continues its count in the low millions I find I'm almost impressed at the Nigel Farage explanation it represents Russian collusion

[Sandydragon]

Now 3.4 million.

[Galfon]

Irrespective of the final outcome, it does show the 2 years plus negotiations for what they were.

[Puja]

Has parliament voted on the extension? I hope they reject it.

Why?

Puja

[Galfon]

Has parliament voted on the extension? I hope they reject it.

Parliament needs to vote on the Deal first ( or maybe be told by the Speaker they can't.).If the deal vote outcome is negative the shorter extension is on offer - presumably some sort of vote will happen then.

[twitchy]

[Which Tyler]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-47678275

The woman who started the record-breaking anti-Brexit petition says she is "shaking like a leaf" after receiving three death threats by phone.

Margaret Georgiadou, 77, began the Revoke Article 50 petition, which had topped four million signatures by Saturday morning.

She said she was "totally amazed" it had become the most popular petition submitted to the Parliament website.

But Mrs Georgiadou said the "horrible" phone calls left her scared and angry.

The retired lecturer says she has also received abuse via her Facebook account.

She said: "I feel terrible, I feel angry with myself because I thought I was tougher than that. But I was scared."

[twitchy]

Over a million marched in london today.

[Sandydragon]

Time for some MPs to find their backbone before it’s too late.

[Galfon]

It's a little bit like the expenses scandal - 'but we've done nothing wrong...where does it say we shouldn't do this ?..'
only 'we've done nothing wrong, where does it say we should do this?..' they may surprise us yet

[Sandydragon]

Times reporting a cabinet revolt with the aim of installing Lydington as temporary PM for the Brexit transition.

May is almost certainly a busted flush now.

[Which Tyler]

Times reporting a cabinet revolt with the aim of installing Lydington as temporary PM for the Brexit transition.

May is almost certainly a busted flush now.

Different sources disagree. Lidington or Gove.

I also don't know how they can force a coup, she's failed a personal vote of no confidence, but survived a governmental one, and more importantly, she's survived a leadership challenge that makes her untouchable until December.
As far as I can tell, all they can do is resign en masses (and neither block would risk doing that and leaving "the enemy" in charge - just like a no confidence vote) or to side-step her and bring their own motions giving days to parliament itself - which would surely require Theresa's consent

[twitchy]

[Banquo]

Times reporting a cabinet revolt with the aim of installing Lydington as temporary PM for the Brexit transition.

May is almost certainly a busted flush now.

She's been a busted flush since the 2017 GE.

[Puja]

Times reporting a cabinet revolt with the aim of installing Lydington as temporary PM for the Brexit transition.

May is almost certainly a busted flush now.

Who's Lydington? I don't recognise the name and I'm wary of saying "Anyone but Gove" on the basis that the Tory party always has deeper depths to plumb.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

Times reporting a cabinet revolt with the aim of installing Lydington as temporary PM for the Brexit transition.

May is almost certainly a busted flush now.

Who's Lydington? I don't recognise the name and I'm wary of saying "Anyone but Gove" on the basis that the Tory party always has deeper depths to plumb.

Puja

Sorry Lidington. He’s deputy leader, I think he used to be minister for Europe. Seems to favour a softer Brexit.

[Banquo]

Times reporting a cabinet revolt with the aim of installing Lydington as temporary PM for the Brexit transition.

May is almost certainly a busted flush now.

Who's Lydington? I don't recognise the name and I'm wary of saying "Anyone but Gove" on the basis that the Tory party always has deeper depths to plumb.

Puja

Sorry Lidington. He’s deputy leader, I think he used to be minister for Europe. Seems to favour a softer Brexit.

He has the semblance of sanity compared to some around him.

Papers are full of May being/going bonkers. Hardly surprising give her apparent personality.

[Digby]

May resigning to secure votes for her deal would be the Tories working even harder to make brexit about the Tory party than any notion of the public interest

[Banquo]

So Labour set to propose Common Market 2.0 which is in fact what we have today, less any influence (and free trade deals as it reads), Why can't they just be honest, and say.....er actually, staying in is better. Ditto all those promoting the similar Norway plus deal.

There's even the slightly deranged proposals of the Current WA plus (one of) the above deals-- so we leave, and then transition to something that's like what we have now, but not as good. Did I eat the wrong pill?

[Digby]

So Labour set to propose Common Market 2.0 which is in fact what we have today, less any influence (and free trade deals as it reads), Why can't they just be honest, and say.....er actually, staying in is better. Ditto all those promoting the similar Norway plus deal.

There's even the slightly deranged proposals of the Current WA plus (one of) the above deals-- so we leave, and then transition to something that's like what we have now, but not as good. Did I eat the wrong pill?

I'd choose to remain, but if I had to leave I'd choose everything we had now less our influence/vote

[Banquo]

So Labour set to propose Common Market 2.0 which is in fact what we have today, less any influence (and free trade deals as it reads), Why can't they just be honest, and say.....er actually, staying in is better. Ditto all those promoting the similar Norway plus deal.

There's even the slightly deranged proposals of the Current WA plus (one of) the above deals-- so we leave, and then transition to something that's like what we have now, but not as good. Did I eat the wrong pill?

I'd choose to remain, but if I had to leave I'd choose everything we had now less our influence/vote

so pointless even leaving, which is kind of my point. Emperor's new clothes. If you are going to leave, there has to be some point to it, even if its only the potential of better trade deals (which you don't mention). That's where the honesty needs to be.

I was thinking I may have missed something, but obviously not.

[Digby]

So Labour set to propose Common Market 2.0 which is in fact what we have today, less any influence (and free trade deals as it reads), Why can't they just be honest, and say.....er actually, staying in is better. Ditto all those promoting the similar Norway plus deal.

There's even the slightly deranged proposals of the Current WA plus (one of) the above deals-- so we leave, and then transition to something that's like what we have now, but not as good. Did I eat the wrong pill?

I'd choose to remain, but if I had to leave I'd choose everything we had now less our influence/vote

so pointless even leaving, which is kind of my point. Emperor's new clothes. If you are going to leave, there has to be some point to it, even if its only the potential of better trade deals (which you don't mention). That's where the honesty needs to be.

I was thinking I may have missed something, but obviously not.

If we must leave I'd rather minimise the damage and retain access to the EU and their trade deals than anything else, we'd still have left the EU. I would agree the supposed positives are on balance pointless

[Banquo]

I'd choose to remain, but if I had to leave I'd choose everything we had now less our influence/vote

so pointless even leaving, which is kind of my point. Emperor's new clothes. If you are going to leave, there has to be some point to it, even if its only the potential of better trade deals (which you don't mention). That's where the honesty needs to be.

I was thinking I may have missed something, but obviously not.

If we must leave I'd rather minimise the damage and retain access to the EU and their trade deals than anything else, we'd still have left the EU. I would agree the supposed positives are on balance pointless

well of course. The WA gives all that through transition and backstop, but obviously no guarantees on outcomes.

[Puja]

https://17millionsignatures.uk/

Given the petition has now risen to 5.5 million signatures and is currently rising at over 1m per day, this doesn't feel like an outlandish target. The larger it gets, the more likely that the politicians will stop citing "The Will Of The People" and maybe try and find what the will of the people currently is, based on the choices that are actively in front of us.

Puja