RugbyRebels

Puja wrote:

Banquo wrote:Shorthand is no one has a plan bar May, and hers isn’t acceptable for many reasons, given it’s a blind attempt at compromise.

And now there's going to be yet another vote on exactly the same deal, hooray! This one will solve all of the problems forever!

Why can May keep proposing votes until enough people are scared that she wins one, but having a referendum to confirm which of the three choices people want is defying democracy?

Also, this headline is the perfect summation of our politics right now:



Puja

There was some pundit who was a senior leave campaigner saying that the ERG would now be stupid (well yes!) not to vote for May's deal, and that the DUP could be won round by some domestic legislation, and thought she could get the 75 votes needed. The problem with that now of course, is that previously loyal May deal voters are clearly in no mood to continue to play ball, and that the ERG are mad and so are the DUP.

Meanwhile, all this plays into the loony-leavers conspiracy theories.

There is no excuse for the levels of incompetence being displayed by nearly everyone who opens their mouth ; aside from making it even more obvious that no-one really agrees with May and that she is utterly alone through her incompetence/intransigence etc.....the whole charade last night was pretty pointless other than politically. Practically, in terms of Brexit, it meant eff all.

If the vote the other night was meaningless for being non binding are there any other advisory only votes affecting all this?

Rumours that if May agrees to stand down after winning the vote the ERG will support. Still doesn’t make the numbers add up, mind.

Mellsblue wrote:Rumours that if May agrees to stand down after winning the vote the ERG will support. Still doesn’t make the numbers add up, mind.

That is surely a fig leaf just so the ERG can justify changing their mind because they're worried about losing Brexit altogether. The second Brexit happens, May is history anyway, so making her resign gains you absolutely nothing.

Puja

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Rumours that if May agrees to stand down after winning the vote the ERG will support. Still doesn’t make the numbers add up, mind.

That is surely a fig leaf just so the ERG can justify changing their mind because they're worried about losing Brexit altogether. The second Brexit happens, May is history anyway, so making her resign gains you absolutely nothing.

Puja

A lot of the ERG are looking for an excuse to climb down. If Cox and reviewed his own cod piece in a more positive manner or the EU had given the UK a unilateral way out then it may/would have been a lot closer last night. Don’t forget that May has immunity from a leadership challenge for a longtime yet. However, she did get to keep no 10 by promising not to contest the next election as leader.

The crux is that ERG want a Brexiteers as leader when negotiations begin during the transition period and May can still be in office for the period of those negotiations unless ousted, which isn’t in the ERG’s gift. They want things moving towards Canada straight away, rather than edging towards Norway.

Second referendum voted down massively, odd it's such a margin as it's far more popular than that result, but many voting against it feel it's too early in proceedings, there's lots of time left, Rome wasn't built in a day and so on

Digby wrote:Second referendum voted down massively, odd it's such a margin as it's far more popular than that result, but many voting against it feel it's too early in proceedings, there's lots of time left, Rome wasn't built in a day and so on

Labour didn't support it, despite being agreed policy. These votes are a massive waste of time imo.

Mellsblue wrote:

Puja wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:Rumours that if May agrees to stand down after winning the vote the ERG will support. Still doesn’t make the numbers add up, mind.

That is surely a fig leaf just so the ERG can justify changing their mind because they're worried about losing Brexit altogether. The second Brexit happens, May is history anyway, so making her resign gains you absolutely nothing.

Puja

A lot of the ERG are looking for an excuse to climb down. If Cox and reviewed his own cod piece in a more positive manner or the EU had given the UK a unilateral way out then it may/would have been a lot closer last night. Don’t forget that May has immunity from a leadership challenge for a longtime yet. However, she did get to keep no 10 by promising not to contest the next election as leader.

The crux is that ERG want a Brexiteers as leader when negotiations begin during the transition period and May can still be in office for the period of those negotiations unless ousted, which isn’t in the ERG’s gift. They want things moving towards Canada straight away, rather than edging towards Norway.

Rees Mogg tried to give them the fig leaf during the WA debate, referring to some piece of international law. Barclay dropped the ball, quelle surprise.
However, not only do the DUP and ERG need getting onside, but previously loyal to May remainers are rebelling. No-deal is frighteningly real imo.

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Second referendum voted down massively, odd it's such a margin as it's far more popular than that result, but many voting against it feel it's too early in proceedings, there's lots of time left, Rome wasn't built in a day and so on

Labour didn't support it, despite being agreed policy. These votes are a massive waste of time imo.

Seemingly today was all about an extension to A50 only, why politicians are so quick to claim they're akin to Trump and can't resolve multiple issues at a time I don't know

Useless duplicitous bastards, they're even asking for support and understanding they know what they're doing as regards a second vote

Digby wrote:

Banquo wrote:

Digby wrote:Second referendum voted down massively, odd it's such a margin as it's far more popular than that result, but many voting against it feel it's too early in proceedings, there's lots of time left, Rome wasn't built in a day and so on

Labour didn't support it, despite being agreed policy. These votes are a massive waste of time imo.

Seemingly today was all about an extension to A50 only, why politicians are so quick to claim they're akin to Trump and can't resolve multiple issues at a time I don't know

Useless duplicitous bastards, they're even asking for support and understanding they know what they're doing as regards a second vote

Corbyn whipped them not to vote, so some actually rebelled!

They've just rejected delaying to June 30 as well, which seems odd.

Big one coming up

Defeated by 2
Parliament votes not to take back control after all

Which Tyler wrote:Big one coming up

Defeated by 2
Parliament votes not to take back control after all

Parliament doesn’t know what it wants.

Doesn't want Corbyn's "we want something else" amendment either.

Now for whether we actually want an extension or not - I don't see this one failing, and I don't see the EU granting it as things stand (things are likely to be different by then though).

Current theory is that she will bring her proposal a 3rd time, expecting to lose (by 50-60). Then be granted a long extension (multi-year), bring her proposal a 4th time, and get brexiteer support by scaring them with a long extension.

Which Tyler wrote:Big one coming up

Defeated by 2
Parliament votes not to take back control after all

Then Corbyn defeated and one of his front bench resigns over referendum.

Could not make this up; think they might be edging towards May's deal inchwise.

Just saw Jon Trickett shadow minister interviewed on TV. Shadow Minister for what? Being a clueless twat full of cliches? We are doomed.

I've seen everything, although it was largely a symbolic vote- Barclay, Brexit secretary, spoke in favour of extending A50 in the debate, then voted against it.

Banquo wrote:I've seen everything, although it was largely a symbolic vote- Barclay, Brexit secretary, spoke in favour of extending A50 in the debate, then voted against it.

Which Tyler wrote:

Banquo wrote:I've seen everything, although it was largely a symbolic vote- Barclay, Brexit secretary, spoke in favour of extending A50 in the debate, then voted against it.

Love that fillum

Mellsblue wrote:A lot of the ERG are looking for an excuse to climb down. If Cox and reviewed his own cod piece in a more positive manner or the EU had given the UK a unilateral way out then it may/would have been a lot closer last night. Don’t forget that May has immunity from a leadership challenge for a longtime yet. However, she did get to keep no 10 by promising not to contest the next election as leader.

The crux is that ERG want a Brexiteers as leader when negotiations begin during the transition period and May can still be in office for the period of those negotiations unless ousted, which isn’t in the ERG’s gift. They want things moving towards Canada straight away, rather than edging towards Norway.

I *had* forgotten that she was immune from another leadership challenge - that changes things entirely.

Banquo wrote:

Which Tyler wrote:Big one coming up

Defeated by 2
Parliament votes not to take back control after all

Then Corbyn defeated and one of his front bench resigns over referendum.

Could not make this up; think they might be edging towards May's deal inchwise.

Corbyn is being a colossal dickhead over this issue. His party as a whole and most of his supporters are pro-Remain, but he had to be bullied into supporting a second referendum in the first place and has now dropped all pretence at supporting it now that a General Election seems likely again.

His entire plan now appears to be letting the Conservatives crash the country with No Deal so he can ride in as a saviour and have enough of a majority to push through his policies. Politically, very savvy, but hardly the best thing for the country.

Puja

In fairness to Corbyn it's more he's a colossal prat period, he's not doing it on purpose just when it comes to brexit

What is incredible - well, it should be incredible, but isn't - May is not immediately going back to the EU to agree an extension. She's having a third vote on her deal next week. Is this triple jeopardy or something? Is this person person stubborn to the point - beyond the point, in fact - of stupidity? Yes, we are a week closer to the wire, but that is still not going to scare the MPs into accepting the deal.

I fully expect her to have a fourth vote on March 28th.

Puja wrote: Corbyn is being a colossal dickhead over this issue. His party as a whole and most of his supporters are pro-Remain, but he had to be bullied into supporting a second referendum in the first place and has now dropped all pretence at supporting it now that a General Election seems likely again.

His entire plan now appears to be letting the Conservatives crash the country with No Deal so he can ride in as a saviour and have enough of a majority to push through his policies. Politically, very savvy, but hardly the best thing for the country.

Puja

In Corbyn’s defence (there’s something I never thought I’d type) there are as many leave voting Lab constituencies as there are Remain constituencies. He has a tight rope to walk. People keeping going on about how many Labour members there are etc etc but that’s moot on polling day. Corbyn needs strong Leave areas to vote Labour if he wants to win a GE.

As for your second para....... I’ve been trying to tell you that for months.

Corbin is of course a brexiteer himself so really doesn’t care if we leave with no deal. European rules might get in the way of some of his plans. But far better to achieve that aim with the Tories taking all the blame.

Sandydragon wrote:Corbin is of course a brexiteer himself so really doesn’t care if we leave with no deal. European rules might get in the way of some of his plans. But far better to achieve that aim with the Tories taking all the blame.

His strategy has always been clear, and is masterly in isolation. But he may have no party to lead soon, other than Momentum-ites.

Son of Mathonwy wrote:What is incredible - well, it should be incredible, but isn't - May is not immediately going back to the EU to agree an extension. She's having a third vote on her deal next week. Is this triple jeopardy or something? Is this person person stubborn to the point - beyond the point, in fact - of stupidity? Yes, we are a week closer to the wire, but that is still not going to scare the MPs into accepting the deal.

I fully expect her to have a fourth vote on March 28th.

Will Bercow allow the bill back in the same session?