Syria

[UGagain]

So there was no genuine discontentment amongst the Syrian people prior to the conflict? No tribal factions and resentment of entitlement? The outsiders just paid Syrians to rise up.

Demonstrations don't just happen, and then turn into bloody civil wars, without a good under lying reason. All was not happy in Syria prior to the war.

I love the way you always describe Arabs as 'tribal'. Like you're not tribal and they are lesser beings.

Those demonstrations, against neoliberal economic policies that the west demands by the way, were like Occupy Wall St, and tolerated by the government, until the western backed snipers infiltrated from Jordan started shooting protestors and police in Daraa. Then they ambushed a SAA convoy killing dozens of soldiers.

These were not Syrians and peaceful protestors aren't armed.

So yes, demonstrations don't just turn into civil wars.

It takes a lot of arms and mercenaries to be shipped in by the powers that wish to wage war.

That would be the powers that you shill for.

[Lizard]

I was in Syria in 2009, and some people I spoke with were clearly discontented with the regime, especially in Damascus (although of course they couldn't be too blatant about it). No one spoke of armed insurrection but who would when talking to a foreign stranger. A couple I stayed with in Damascus, after a few drinks, hinted at a brother involved in the opposition.

The general point is right, though. There would be very few countries in which the population is inherently heavily enough armed to start the sort of thing we see in Syria. Someone has shipped arms in.

[Sandydragon]

I was in Syria in 2009, and some people I spoke with were clearly discontented with the regime, especially in Damascus (although of course they couldn't be too blatant about it). No one spoke of armed insurrection but who would when talking to a foreign stranger. A couple I stayed with in Damascus, after a few drinks, hinted at a brother involved in the opposition.

The general point is right, though. There would be very few countries in which the population is inherently heavily enough armed to start the sort of thing we see in Syria. Someone has shipped arms in.

I suspect more than a few came over from Iraq initially. The border there is practically open access. I agree arms have been (are) shipped in by third parties, but getting hold of AK weapons in that region is child's play.

[cashead]

There's an angry population that "someone" (US, Russia, Israel, UK, China, that dodgy guy who lives down the road with the weird eye, not sure what arguing over this would really accomplish) slipped arms to.

Of course, the shitstorm going on around them would make it fairly easy to smuggle arms in - if someone like Kevin "caro" Dawes* (likely paranoid schizophrenic with delusions of being an army medic) from the Something Awful forums can slip into Syria, I'd imagine someone who is more on to it wouldn't have too much trouble getting weapons in.



* He's worth reading up on as a case of someone who was so far gone that attempts to stop him ended up being a case of pissing into the wind. He ended up in Libya during their bit of fun, where he entered as a photojournalist and participated in combad posing as a medic, returned to the US, ended up homeless (the narrative here is a little fuzzy, but IIRC, he had a dispute with his landlord, his family wanted nothing to do with him, etc.) and decided to go to Syria in 2012, where he went missing. Story around the campfire is that Dawes got intercepted by someone (probably the Syrian military) and was presumably tortured to death, although there is no real way of knowing at this stage. At this stage, while there is no legal declaration, people who apparently knew him believe he is dead.

[Zhivago]

My understanding is that they are concerned that despite the coordinates being given, the hospitals were still attacked. A one off could be an accident, but there is a suggestion that the attacks were deliberate.

Your understanding seems clearer on who to blame than MSF.

Interesting read:
http://www.msf.org/article/syria-%E2%80 ... s%E2%80%9D

Aerial bombardment at two locations in areas, for one definitely, where there is a major Syrian offensive going on. Who else do you think was involved? Why are you so intent on supporting Russian and Syrian war crimes? That's what this is, if it were American troops you would be demanding trials and lengthy prison sentences.

As for the article, he compares one attack in Afghanistan with dozens in Syria. Could one be a mistake, yes. Could 60 odd, no. The man wants a ceasefire and negotiation. But by throwing the blame equally, he implies that all actors are equal. Even by your stats, the Russians are launching far more attacks. And they are doing so in areas of heavy fighting in a manner that would make it difficult not to hit protected buildings. He is also at odds with his staff in Syria who firmly blamed the Russians.

source?

[morepork]

Your understanding seems clearer on who to blame than MSF.

Interesting read:
http://www.msf.org/article/syria-%E2%80 ... s%E2%80%9D

Aerial bombardment at two locations in areas, for one definitely, where there is a major Syrian offensive going on. Who else do you think was involved? Why are you so intent on supporting Russian and Syrian war crimes? That's what this is, if it were American troops you would be demanding trials and lengthy prison sentences.

As for the article, he compares one attack in Afghanistan with dozens in Syria. Could one be a mistake, yes. Could 60 odd, no. The man wants a ceasefire and negotiation. But by throwing the blame equally, he implies that all actors are equal. Even by your stats, the Russians are launching far more attacks. And they are doing so in areas of heavy fighting in a manner that would make it difficult not to hit protected buildings. He is also at odds with his staff in Syria who firmly blamed the Russians.

source?

[Zhivago]

My understanding is that they are concerned that despite the coordinates being given, the hospitals were still attacked. A one off could be an accident, but there is a suggestion that the attacks were deliberate.

Your understanding seems clearer on who to blame than MSF.

Interesting read:
http://www.msf.org/article/syria-%E2%80 ... s%E2%80%9D

Aerial bombardment at two locations in areas, for one definitely, where there is a major Syrian offensive going on. Who else do you think was involved? Why are you so intent on supporting Russian and Syrian war crimes? That's what this is, if it were American troops you would be demanding trials and lengthy prison sentences.

As for the article, he compares one attack in Afghanistan with dozens in Syria. Could one be a mistake, yes. Could 60 odd, no. The man wants a ceasefire and negotiation. But by throwing the blame equally, he implies that all actors are equal. Even by your stats, the Russians are launching far more attacks. And they are doing so in areas of heavy fighting in a manner that would make it difficult not to hit protected buildings. He is also at odds with his staff in Syria who firmly blamed the Russians.

Unmarked hospitals are not very protected.

Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention

Article 18

" Civilian hospitals organized to give care to the wounded and sick, the infirm and maternity cases, may in no circumstances be the object of attack, but shall at all times be respected and protected by the Parties to the conflict.

States which are Parties to a conflict shall provide all civilian hospitals with certificates showing that they are civilian hospitals and that the buildings which they occupy are not used for any purpose which would deprive these hospitals of protection in accordance with Article 19.

Civilian hospitals shall be marked by means of the emblem provided for in Article 38 of the Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field of August 12, 1949, but only if so authorized by the State.

The Parties to the conflict shall, in so far as military considerations permit, take the necessary steps to make the distinctive emblems indicating civilian hospitals clearly visible to the enemy land, air and naval forces in order to obviate the possibility of any hostile ac tion.

In view of the dangers to which hospitals may be exposed by being close to military objectives, it is recommended that such hospitals be situated as far as possible from such objectives. "

[Zhivago]

Important NATO Members are not willing to support Turkey in a possible big war with Russia, according to a report by the German magazine Der Spiegel.

http://neurope.eu/article/nato-may-not- ... th-russia/

[Lizard]

All we need now is for someone to shoot whatever is the modern equivalent of an Archduke.

[Zhivago]

All we need now is for someone to shoot whatever is the modern equivalent of an Archduke.

Would a Saudi prince do?

[cashead]

All we need now is for someone to shoot whatever is the modern equivalent of an Archduke.

Would a Saudi prince do?

How far from the throne is he?

[Zhivago]

All we need now is for someone to shoot whatever is the modern equivalent of an Archduke.

Would a Saudi prince do?

How far from the throne is he?

Guess this guy fits the bill if we need an heir presumptive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Nayef

[Zhivago]

Would a Saudi prince do?

How far from the throne is he?

Guess this guy fits the bill if we need an heir presumptive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_bin_Nayef

But I assume it's more likely for the whole thing to kick off via Turkey. So perhaps Erdogan's son would fit the bill better. I can imagine such a scenario:
-Kurds assasinate Erdogan's son
-Turkey declares war/invades Syria
-Russia defends Syria
-All other powers pile in on their respective sides (or of course more likely do fuck all and leave Turkey up shit creek with some very angry Russians)

[UGagain]

Probably the best article I've read on Syria from a mainstream journalist.

Peter Oborne speaks to residents of government-held areas about their fighting for ‘civilisation’ and latest drive to root out ‘terrorism’ in Syria

http://www.middleeasteye.net/essays/jou ... 1376989223

[UGagain]

I was in Syria in 2009, and some people I spoke with were clearly discontented with the regime, especially in Damascus (although of course they couldn't be too blatant about it). No one spoke of armed insurrection but who would when talking to a foreign stranger. A couple I stayed with in Damascus, after a few drinks, hinted at a brother involved in the opposition.

The general point is right, though. There would be very few countries in which the population is inherently heavily enough armed to start the sort of thing we see in Syria. Someone has shipped arms in.

I'm discontented with the Key regime. Can NATO send 80,000 jihadis with heavy weapons from Libya, Croatia, the USA,the UK, France, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Jordan, Xinjiang etc etc etc to destroy New Zealand please?

In the interests of democracy of course.

[OptimisticJock]

Just like old times. This feels....... comfortable.

[cashead]

I was in Syria in 2009, and some people I spoke with were clearly discontented with the regime, especially in Damascus (although of course they couldn't be too blatant about it). No one spoke of armed insurrection but who would when talking to a foreign stranger. A couple I stayed with in Damascus, after a few drinks, hinted at a brother involved in the opposition.

The general point is right, though. There would be very few countries in which the population is inherently heavily enough armed to start the sort of thing we see in Syria. Someone has shipped arms in.

I'm discontented with the Key regime. Can NATO send 80,000 jihadis with heavy weapons from Libya, Croatia, the USA,the UK, France, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Jordan, Xinjiang etc etc etc to destroy New Zealand please?

In the interests of democracy of course.

If you can arrange it, be my guest.

[UGagain]

A reasonable summation of the history of Anglo-US bastardry in Syria by ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... 213601?o=0

Civil war my ar5e.

[Zhivago]

The conflict arose because hostile states decided that they wouldn't accept Assad's rejection of a lucrative energy pipeline through Syria. Thus they attempted a coup, for much the same reasons the US orchestrated the 1949 coup.

as i said here

[jared_7]

A reasonable summation of the history of Anglo-US bastardry in Syria by ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... 213601?o=0

Civil war my ar5e.

Eye opening article. cheers

[UGagain]

The last time there was so many military on Russia's border is when Nazis invaded Russia - Prof. Stephen Cohen



No idea how to insert video, sorry.

[cashead]

The last time there was so many military on Russia's border is when Nazis invaded Russia - Prof. Stephen Cohen



No idea how to insert video, sorry.

Edit: OK, that didn't work. Let's try this, then.





Edit 2: When you're posting, look at the second line of your menu options. There should be what looks like a playbutton on the far right end of the options, just above the text box. It's next to the Soundcloud button (that little orange square). That should give you a pop-up menu, where you just paste the video URL, and presto.

Alternatively, use [bbvideo=560,315 ] and then close it with [/ bbvideo] (remove the spaces) HTML tags.

[UGagain]

Cheers.

[J Dory]

A reasonable summation of the history of Anglo-US bastardry in Syria by ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... 213601?o=0

Civil war my ar5e.

Eye opening article. cheers

Yep, nice one hUGh. Good to have you back.

[cashead]

Cheers.

You're most welcome.