RugbyRebels

Mikey Brown wrote:I'm curious what people may view Hamish Watson's shortcomings as because he was fantastic in basically every game. On the floor, linking, carrying, hassling halfbacks, disrupting everything and scrapping for every bit of possession.

Warburton certainly returned to some form* after being a bit poor for quite a long time, but without the captaincy and with Tipuric doing a fantastic job of all the 7 duties. Yet is now starting Lions 7, captain and king of the universe? Don't get me wrong he's a great player and probably the best shout for captain but people seem to have gone a bit overboard on his performances.

*Except when Scotland tore Wales' breakdown to bits.

The flipside to this is Warburic doing a number on England's breakdown. Gatland just seems hugely selective about which of these performances count and which don't.

Hooky wrote:For me:

Hogg, North, Joseph, Farrell, Daley, Sexton, Murray, McGrath, George, Furlong, Itoje, Kruis, Stander, Warbuton, Vunipola

Mako, Owens, Cole, AWJ, Faletau, Webb, Biggar, Williams

Mikey Brown wrote:I'm curious what people may view Hamish Watson's shortcomings as because he was fantastic in basically every game. On the floor, linking, carrying, hassling halfbacks, disrupting everything and scrapping for every bit of possession.

Warburton certainly returned to some form* after being a bit poor for quite a long time, but without the captaincy and with Tipuric doing a fantastic job of all the 7 duties. Yet is now starting Lions 7, captain and king of the universe? Don't get me wrong he's a great player and probably the best shout for captain but people seem to have gone a bit overboard on his performances.

*Except when Scotland tore Wales' breakdown to bits.

The flipside to this is Warburic doing a number on England's breakdown. Gatland just seems hugely selective about which of these performances count and which don't.

Sandydragon wrote:Yes, Wales got hammered by Scotland, although Tipuric was perhaps the one decent player in a defeated pack. Equally, England destroyed Scotland, and Wales did the job on Ireland. Care to pick the bones out of any of that?

Mellsblue wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see Stander - SOB - Vunipola backrow. Big is beautiful.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:Yes, Wales got hammered by Scotland, although Tipuric was perhaps the one decent player in a defeated pack. Equally, England destroyed Scotland, and Wales did the job on Ireland. Care to pick the bones out of any of that?

I did. All of the flanker selections are fair enough. None are of course.

Stom wrote:No shoehorning in of both BillyV and Faletau, then? I reckon we could see that...

Either that or Faletau will be on the bench.

We surely must see a number of partnerships in the team. It just makes sense. So I would put Itoje and Kruis together, Murray and Sexton together. We, unfortunately, don't have many other options then, but we can have Mako, Cole. Itoje, Kruis. Murray, Sexton, Henshaw. North, LWilliams.

I think that's a likely scenario. Which would see a team like:

Mako
Best
Cole
Itoje
Kruis
Stander
Warburton
BillyV
Murray
Sexton
North
Henshaw
Joseph
LWilliams
Hogg

McGrath, George, Furlong, Launch (goddamn, err...Henderson), Faletau, Youngs, Farrell, Daly

Sandydragon wrote:

Stom wrote:No shoehorning in of both BillyV and Faletau, then? I reckon we could see that...

Either that or Faletau will be on the bench.

We surely must see a number of partnerships in the team. It just makes sense. So I would put Itoje and Kruis together, Murray and Sexton together. We, unfortunately, don't have many other options then, but we can have Mako, Cole. Itoje, Kruis. Murray, Sexton, Henshaw. North, LWilliams.

I think that's a likely scenario. Which would see a team like:

Mako
Best
Cole
Itoje
Kruis
Stander
Warburton
BillyV
Murray
Sexton
North
Henshaw
Joseph
LWilliams
Hogg

McGrath, George, Furlong, Launch (goddamn, err...Henderson), Faletau, Youngs, Farrell, Daly

Obviously a lot can happen before the 1st test, but that doesn't look too far off, although id have Furlong starting and Youngs vs Webb isn't a done deal.

Stom wrote:

Sandydragon wrote:

Stom wrote:No shoehorning in of both BillyV and Faletau, then? I reckon we could see that...

Either that or Faletau will be on the bench.

We surely must see a number of partnerships in the team. It just makes sense. So I would put Itoje and Kruis together, Murray and Sexton together. We, unfortunately, don't have many other options then, but we can have Mako, Cole. Itoje, Kruis. Murray, Sexton, Henshaw. North, LWilliams.

I think that's a likely scenario. Which would see a team like:

Mako
Best
Cole
Itoje
Kruis
Stander
Warburton
BillyV
Murray
Sexton
North
Henshaw
Joseph
LWilliams
Hogg

McGrath, George, Furlong, Launch (goddamn, err...Henderson), Faletau, Youngs, Farrell, Daly

Obviously a lot can happen before the 1st test, but that doesn't look too far off, although id have Furlong starting and Youngs vs Webb isn't a done deal.

I only have them that way round for the partnerships (Mako and Cole, Youngs and Farrell). Otherwise I would make the swaps you suggested. But I feel those partnerships are important considering the lack of time.

Mellsblue wrote:All Irish front row starting followed by an all English front row (Sinckler not Cole) sounds good to me.

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:I'd have Mako coming off the bench and so start an all Irish front row. Not that I think Mako is necessarily worse or doesn't deserve to start over McGrath, just that I think he probably offers more from the bench.

Faletau or SOB should probably be on the bench given their flexibility, but if you're starting CJ then you don't really need cover at 8

J Dory wrote:OK.

"the kiwis don't go in for power scrummaging"

Bullocks.

Mellsblue wrote:

J Dory wrote:OK.

"the kiwis don't go in for power scrummaging"

Bullocks.

I know in NZ bullocks are treated as humans, both in human rights and marital law, but you can't play them at prop.

Stom wrote:

Eugene Wrayburn wrote:I'd have Mako coming off the bench and so start an all Irish front row. Not that I think Mako is necessarily worse or doesn't deserve to start over McGrath, just that I think he probably offers more from the bench.

Faletau or SOB should probably be on the bench given their flexibility, but if you're starting CJ then you don't really need cover at 8

Sigh.

Do you think Gatland purposefully made a couple of contentious picks just to make it interesting? As this is all too civil. I can go along with that suggestion, plus the below one about Sinckler.

We need something to fight about!

Stom wrote: Do you think Gatland purposefully made a couple of contentious picks just to make it interesting? As this is all too civil. I can go along with that suggestion, plus the below one about Sinckler.

We need something to fight about!

J Dory wrote:

Mellsblue wrote:

J Dory wrote:OK.

"the kiwis don't go in for power scrummaging"

Bullocks.

I know in NZ bullocks are treated as humans, both in human rights and marital law, but you can't play them at prop.

Oops. Bollocks then. The NZ scrum has had at least parity with the home nations more often than not. The perception of weak All Blacks scrums goes back to Stephen Jones basket ball comments and the one 13 man scrum of England pre-2003 WC, it's bOllocks.