Cricket fred

[fivepointer]

Be fair. The Irish new ball attack is one of the most feared in the international game.....

Bairstow's innings was bizarre, culminating in the utterly predictable bowled all ends up wafting at the ball without any foot movement.

[Big D]

The concern is that this will be partially excused by the argument that they haven't played red ball cricket for a while. Whilst true, it ignores the pattern.

Burns and Denly haven't shown a lot in the small sample of their test careers and haven't set the county scene alight this season. Denlys average is heavily pumped up by one large not out knock.

Bairstow - since the start of the 2017 English summer season (26 matches) has averaged 30 for England. His overall average is 36 which isn't terrible but they have picked him for batting more so than his glove work.

Ali - since the start of the 2017 English summer season (22 matches) has averaged 22 for England. So is now basically a specialist bowler who will probably need to bat at 8.

[Big D]

It was on this ground in 2012 that Andrew Strauss played his last Test, opening with Alastair Cook and Jonathan Trott batting three. So, you could say England haven't had a stable top three for seven years. Or, if you prefer, the last time England's top three was nailed on, the London Olympics had only just finished, Alex Ferguson was still Manchester United manager and Sam Curran was only 14.

Hadn't realised it was that long ago.

[Galfon]

Ridiculous allocating 4 days for this fixture.

[Digby]

How did I not have a bet on for them to collapse?

[Digby]

Ali - since the start of the 2017 English summer season (22 matches) has averaged 22 for England. So is now basically a specialist bowler who will probably need to bat at 8.

If Ali doesn't bat well (and this is a terrible game for him given he's really only decent at counter attack against tired bowlers) he's not a specialist bowler, he's a nothing. At his best he does a decent job as an all rounder, and he's popular in the side too which is a decent bonus.

[Galfon]

Lead of 122 after 1st inns..
Still easily turnaroundable with the Eng bowlers & baked strip for the last inns.. useful outings for the next gen bowlers Stone & Curran.
Just need the wilting willows to stiffen up tomorrow.
Playing in 39' heat will be fun.

[Digby]

Tomorrow should be a horrible day to bowl, though I'd imagine the batters will struggle with sweat in both helmet (not jockstrap related though those will not be nice) and gloves

[Puja]

What is the point of Rory Burns? I cannot see the use of an opener who is unable to resist waving his bat at balls going past his off stump. It's happened too many times to be considered fixable - he's a wicket waiting to happen and it's always entirely his fault.

Jack Leach, on the other hand, appears to be able to leave alone things he doesn't want to play, defend his stumps, punish a bad ball and has basically done an excellent job of seeing off the opening spell and softening things up for his middle order. 38 not out, top scorer for England so far and second top scorer of the test, just by showing a little discipline (and having some luck, but every opener needs that). I'd rather have him than Burns right now.

Puja

[Galfon]

Top first-class score was 66 before today (past 80 already..), average 11.
Just how good he must be at Night!
Smart call by JR.

[Big D]

Urgh, poor lad. Would have been good to see him get a ton.

Roy was a bit hit and miss. But that is what he will be like and I think the selectors and fans just need to accept he may get out cheaply.

Burns, the selectors have a genuine decision to make. Can they see him scoring runs consistently v Australia even at a modest average of say 30 against them?

[Banquo]

What is the point of Rory Burns? I cannot see the use of an opener who is unable to resist waving his bat at balls going past his off stump. It's happened too many times to be considered fixable - he's a wicket waiting to happen and it's always entirely his fault.

Jack Leach, on the other hand, appears to be able to leave alone things he doesn't want to play, defend his stumps, punish a bad ball and has basically done an excellent job of seeing off the opening spell and softening things up for his middle order. 38 not out, top scorer for England so far and second top scorer of the test, just by showing a little discipline (and having some luck, but every opener needs that). I'd rather have him than Burns right now.

Puja

Burns is bang out of form. He was top run scorer in county cricket last season iirc

[Banquo]

They really are a pathetically nervous batting outfit. Love chucking wickets away, and YJB has had a mare. Chucked away a good position and now in the shyte.

Moeen and Woakes batting for Ashes places I suspect.

[Big D]

They really are a pathetically nervous batting outfit. Love chucking wickets away, and YJB has had a mare. Chucked away a good position and now in the shyte.

Moeen and Woakes batting for Ashes places I suspect.

Pathetically nervous or just not up to it in test matches? Denly gets a pass in this innings.

The batting has been suspect for a long time now and yet Vaughan and Hussain etc will go on about how talented the betting line up is after No.3 but the evidence in test matches isn't there to back that up.

[Banquo]

They really are a pathetically nervous batting outfit. Love chucking wickets away, and YJB has had a mare. Chucked away a good position and now in the shyte.

Moeen and Woakes batting for Ashes places I suspect.

Pathetically nervous or just not up to it in test matches? Denly gets a pass in this innings.

The batting has been suspect for a long time now and yet Vaughan and Hussain etc will go on about how talented the betting line up is after No.3 but the evidence in test matches isn't there to back that up.

Bit of both, but one drives the other (not enough good players puts pressure on the good ones)- look at the failures in the 1st innings amongst the proven players at this level, and YJB again here. And frankly, this isn't really a tier 1 test match.

[Big D]

They really are a pathetically nervous batting outfit. Love chucking wickets away, and YJB has had a mare. Chucked away a good position and now in the shyte.

Moeen and Woakes batting for Ashes places I suspect.

Pathetically nervous or just not up to it in test matches? Denly gets a pass in this innings.

The batting has been suspect for a long time now and yet Vaughan and Hussain etc will go on about how talented the betting line up is after No.3 but the evidence in test matches isn't there to back that up.

Bit of both, but one drives the other (not enough good players puts pressure on the good ones)- look at the failures in the 1st innings amongst the proven players at this level, and YJB again here. And frankly, this isn't really a tier 1 test match.

It is a tough one. Especially with the changes up top.

Playing devils advocate, how many batsmen in the England side playing Ireland are proven, and by that I mean consistently performing, at test level when you consider all of them down to Bairstow and maybe at a push Ali are picked for their batting over any other discipline. Arguably only Root. Bairstow and Ali is full flow are great to watch, but both are very inconsistent and at times lack the technique needed. Bairstow averages 35 across 100+ innings, a good bit below that over the last 2 years (30). Moeen has played 100 innings and averaging 30, again a good bit lower over the last 2 years (22).

At what point do the alternatives get given an extended run in the side like a Ben Foakes for example who had a promising start but had a difficult series in the West Indies (wasn't the only one)? Or Sibley who has scored heavily this year?

On the plus side Archer has passed a fitness test.

[Galfon]

104-6 effectively - lots of fails there.
A ton from JR (& somebody staying with him - e.g. Curran) and it's a get out of jail probs.
Poor show so far.

[Banquo]

Pathetically nervous or just not up to it in test matches? Denly gets a pass in this innings.

The batting has been suspect for a long time now and yet Vaughan and Hussain etc will go on about how talented the betting line up is after No.3 but the evidence in test matches isn't there to back that up.

Bit of both, but one drives the other (not enough good players puts pressure on the good ones)- look at the failures in the 1st innings amongst the proven players at this level, and YJB again here. And frankly, this isn't really a tier 1 test match.

It is a tough one. Especially with the changes up top.

Playing devils advocate, how many batsmen in the England side playing Ireland are proven, and by that I mean consistently performing, at test level when you consider all of them down to Bairstow and maybe at a push Ali are picked for their batting over any other discipline. Arguably only Root. Bairstow and Ali is full flow are great to watch, but both are very inconsistent and at times lack the technique needed. Bairstow averages 35 across 100+ innings, a good bit below that over the last 2 years (30). Moeen has played 100 innings and averaging 30, again a good bit lower over the last 2 years (22).

At what point do the alternatives get given an extended run in the side like a Ben Foakes for example who had a promising start but had a difficult series in the West Indies (wasn't the only one)? Or Sibley who has scored heavily this year?

On the plus side Archer has passed a fitness test.

My key point is that YJB, Root, and Ali are much better test batsman than they have just demonstrated, and its jitters. That's shown by falls of wicket clustering together. All this batting lineup should be doing much better against a county level bowling attack tbh. See Leach.

[Galfon]

ffs

[Banquo]

and now Woakes, who is a decent test 8 at least. Shambles tbh, after Leach of all people got them into a winning position.

[Galfon]

Small milestones now..300 up, lead of 200...etc
They do make it hard - though another tight finish is looming, good news for the neutrals.

[Banquo]

although Curran showed stones, that was also daft. Two men out there, long boundary,

[Big D]

Bit of both, but one drives the other (not enough good players puts pressure on the good ones)- look at the failures in the 1st innings amongst the proven players at this level, and YJB again here. And frankly, this isn't really a tier 1 test match.

It is a tough one. Especially with the changes up top.

Playing devils advocate, how many batsmen in the England side playing Ireland are proven, and by that I mean consistently performing, at test level when you consider all of them down to Bairstow and maybe at a push Ali are picked for their batting over any other discipline. Arguably only Root. Bairstow and Ali is full flow are great to watch, but both are very inconsistent and at times lack the technique needed. Bairstow averages 35 across 100+ innings, a good bit below that over the last 2 years (30). Moeen has played 100 innings and averaging 30, again a good bit lower over the last 2 years (22).

At what point do the alternatives get given an extended run in the side like a Ben Foakes for example who had a promising start but had a difficult series in the West Indies (wasn't the only one)? Or Sibley who has scored heavily this year?

On the plus side Archer has passed a fitness test.

My key point is that YJB, Root, and Ali are much better test batsman than they have just demonstrated, and its jitters. That's shown by falls of wicket clustering together. All this batting lineup should be doing much better against a county level bowling attack tbh. See Leach.

Again, playing the other side of the discussion, other than Root, are they really based upon the last two years? Over the last quarter of their current international careers they aren't much better test batsman than what they have shown. At what point does their early international form become the outlier in their performances? 11 out of Bairstows last 18 or so innings have seen scores of 15 or less back to the start of the India series or 12 out of 22 of including Pakistan.

The batting line up has generally been inconsistent for a while. It cannot only be the top 3 are at fault.

[Big D]

I do think there is a potentially good international test player in Bairstow but he needs to focus on his technique.

[fivepointer]

A few of them fall into that category. Some sensible, pragmatic application might not go amiss either. Sometimes you just have to sit in and ride out a tough session even if you score at 2 an over. There is nothing wrong in leaving the ball and playing with limited ambition, though staying in is hardly an unworthy ambition in itself.