early June
Fiji v Australia - Suva
NZ v Samoa - Auckland
Namibia v SA - Windhoek
early November
Georga v England - Tbilisi
Romania v France - Bucharest
Russia v Scotland - Sochi
Spain v Italy - Barcelona
Ireland v Georga - Dublin
Wales v Romania - Cardiff
Year 2:
early June
Japan v NZ - Tokyo
Australia v Tonga - Brisbane
SA v Namibia - Bloemfontein
early November
Georgia v Wales - Tbilisi
Romania v Scotland - Bucharest
Russia v Ireland - Sochi
Portugal v Italy, Lisbon
France v Romania - Marseilles
England v Georgia - Manchester
Meanwhile, I've also suggested in the past the idea of touring teams including tier 2/3 nations on the AIs & summer tours. ie stronger Southern Hemsiphere teams could stop off in Tbilisi, Bucharest or Sochi for a one-off test en route to Western Europe, while Argentina might take on Spain, and 6 Nations could include Uruguay on tours to Argentina (Brazil or Chile for Italy?), Namibia on tours to SA (Kenya or Zimbabwe for Italy?), and Pacific Islands on tour Down Under (even if it means playing them in NZ or Oz).
Could do with aa bit more professional rugby around the Black sea.
The thing is we have a nation which is really passionate about its rugby and is consistently performing well on the international stage. If the powers that be let the opportunity slip to welcome another nation into their elite fold, it will be to the game's detriment and their eternal shame. This is what happened with Romania in 80s and Namibia in the early 90s. A lot more could have been done to integrate those countries when they were at their prime and knocking over 5 Nations teams. Also, with Georgia, we're not only talking about one country, but an entire region with vast potential - particularly in the form of giant neighbors Russia, of course.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
Germany just beat Romania 41-38. I don't think we'll be seeing the Oaks in an expanded 6 Nations any time soon. But Germany just might not be too far away - and that's no joke. This result over a tier 2 team follows on from their narrow win over Uruguay in the AIs. & with the strength of the German enconomy and its close proximity to the current 6 nations competitors, who knows what the future may hold for Western Europe's most populous nation?
Also, added to Brazil's latest upset in the America's (over Chile), this looks like another good argument in favor of World Cup expansion.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
Good point here about the growing absurdity of lumping Georgia and Romania together:
At senior level, this has not been so much of a 50/50 rivalry any more ...
Since 2011, the score in this fixture is 6-0-1 in favour of Georgia. In terms of ENC trophies the score is 6-0 in favour of Georgia, 4 of which were clean sweeps. The last time Romania won the trophy was in 2010, the last clean sweep was back in 2002.
To add to that, the Romanians are also suffering an ongoing try drought in this fixture that has now run a total of 6 hours and 33 minutes of rugby. Georgia just scored 6 in the last match.
At U20 level, Georgia are one of the top 12 sides in the world, having reached the Junior World Cup in dominant fashion last year. Romania have not reached the Junior World Trophy since 2010, nor even come particularly close, bordering on the edge of being a top 12 side just in the continent let alone the world, ranking 12th, 12th, 13th and 9th amongst European nations over the past 4 years.
At U18 level over the past 4 years Georgia have ranked 6th, 6th, 7th and 2nd in the European Championship. Romania on the otherhand, have performed like ENC relegation candidates, ranking 12th, 13th, 11th and 12th. One side has taken major scalps from the 6 Nations, the other has lost to all of Belgium, Spain, Russia, Portugal and Germany.
Incidentally the two nations U18 sides also met at age grade level for the first time in 4 years this month. Result: Georgia 49-10 Romania in a match played in soaking, wet conditions.
The disparity here was well displayed at the RWC. 11 of the Georgian 23 that beat Tonga were younger than the youngest player in the Romania 23 that beat Canada.
It was also shown in the recent ENC match as well. Georgia picked their strongest available team, Romania were the ones fielding an experimental side with a coach talking about giving youth an opportunity. Yet still it was the Georgians who had the younger side, and swept past the less experienced Oaks side by a record margin.
Half of what is a first choice Georgian XV were born in the 1990's, including several core members of the side (Nariashvili, Chilachava, Mikautadze, Sharikadze etc). Romania still have barely produced a single established first choice starter born after the death of Ceausescu (apart from perhaps Adrian Apostol, in possibly the weakest position in their side).
This may come as no surprise whatsoever given junior results, but the younger players in the Georgian team are just so far advanced on their Romanian counterparts. It's not even remotely close.
The Georgian team have far stronger local popularity and support than Romania ...
52,342 fans packed out Dinamo Arena to watch Georgia play Romania this month. The previous encounter in Tbilisi two years earlier saw 27,517 completely sell out the Mikheil Meskhi Stadium. In the corresponding fixtures in Bucharest, there were 4,500 and 4,000 at the little Arcul de Triumf.
Georgia's biggest crowd over the past 4 years was 54,827 at a sold out Dinamo Arena, Romania's was 6,000 at a stadium with empty stands.
On Georgian sports sites, rugby is listed as one of the main sports. On Romanian sites it's listed under the 'other sports' bracket. Mamuka Gorgodze is a beloved sports icon in Georgia, there is no rugby equivalent in Romania. The interest is just on different levels.
A glance at those crowds also shows visibly a very different demographic there as well. The fans at Lelos games look much more youthful and energetic, and when they've packed out stadiums create a boisterous bear pit of an atmosphere. In Romania, as well as simply fewer fans, they also appear to be older, more likely to tut tut at booing for instance, and generally bring a quieter calmer atmosphere.
The popularity and playing pool have gone in different directions ...
As former team spokesman Radu Constantin said in 2007, post communism 'sport, and rugby especially, became less popular as an activity'. Indeed Romania, who previously finished 2nd on the medal table of 1984 Olympics, have seen sport generally decline post communism. With some factors including a reduction in government support, one of the lowest birth rates in the EU, and according to a 2010 report also one of the lowest participation levels in sport in the continent.
That naturally means Romanian rugby has had a decreasing pool of talent to work with, and are less likely to be able to attract the country's elite athletes with the sport's profile and prominence having dropped from what previous generations knew.
Which is in contrast to the growth Georgian rugby, which from a very low base, has grown dramatically. Now receiving increased government support and investment, increased registered playing numbers to now nearly equal Romania, and are continuing to grow with reportedly a 37% increase in new registrations at rugby clubs following the RWC.
And also notably having risen far higher up the pecking order in Georgian sport, now have far better chances of attracting some of the country's best athletes and from a younger age, something that was not the case up until these last few years, and a factor of vital importance for a nation with still a relatively small playing base next to most major nations.
This may be difficult to swallow for Romanian fans, but as the FRR president Hari Dumitras stated this week 'we have to admit Georgia is stronger than Romania'. Only the most severely jaundiced could argue otherwise.
These two nations long term potential are not in the same ball park. And increasingly, the Oaks are beginning to hang onto their old rivals coat tails, hoping to be dragged along with them.
Case in point being the recent RFU report that stated 'consideration is being given' to Georgia and Romania competing in the U20 6 Nations. If that were to happen, it would be major news for both sides, but if we're being honest it would also be something achieved almost entirely off the back of Georgia's recent achievements at junior level.
Likewise, in regards to the 6 Nations. It should be remembered who are the ones winning the ENC every year, attracting over 50,000 to watch them do it, and who have strong government and sponsorship backing. Make no mistake, it's Georgia who are very much the ones leading this campaign, and will continue to do so.
52,342 fans packed out Dinamo Arena to watch Georgia play Romania this month. The previous encounter in Tbilisi two years earlier saw 27,517 completely sell out the Mikheil Meskhi Stadium.
Yet not a single tier 1 (Rugby Championship or 6 Nations) team has EVER played a test there. Unbelievable
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
rowan wrote:52,342 fans packed out Dinamo Arena to watch Georgia play Romania this month. The previous encounter in Tbilisi two years earlier saw 27,517 completely sell out the Mikheil Meskhi Stadium.
Yet not a single tier 1 (Rugby Championship or 6 Nations) team has EVER played a test there. Unbelievable
When has Romania last hosted a tier 1 Rugby game? Early 90's is my guess.
rowan wrote:52,342 fans packed out Dinamo Arena to watch Georgia play Romania this month. The previous encounter in Tbilisi two years earlier saw 27,517 completely sell out the Mikheil Meskhi Stadium.
Yet not a single tier 1 (Rugby Championship or 6 Nations) team has EVER played a test there. Unbelievable
When has Romania last hosted a tier 1 Rugby game? Early 90's is my guess.
& here's why . . .
In the corresponding fixtures in Bucharest, there were 4,500 and 4,000 at the little Arcul de Triumf.
Quite apart from their downward spiral as a rugby-playing nation since the amateur era
(NB: according to rugbyinternational.net - which is prone to a few errors - they hosted an official test against France in Bucharest in 2006, losing 14-62) http://www.rugbyinternational.net/
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
Scotland may become the first tier 1 nation ever to play a test in Georgia:
Georgia already attract full houses of 55,000 for the visit of Russia and Nijaradze guarantees that would be the case for every Six Nations game. The Daily Telegraph can reveal that there are already advanced talks about Scotland becoming the first tier-one nation to visit Tbilisi.
“They showed willingness even though they have a very busy schedule,” Nijaradze said. “We are hopeful of finding an opportunity of hosting Scotland and that will be a great honour for us.”
This summer, Georgia will host the Under-20 World Championships which will be seen as another key staging post. Tbilisi already attracts more than six million tourists a year and Nijaradze has no doubts that it would be a hit with the travelling supporters.
rowan wrote:Scotland may become the first tier 1 nation ever to play a test in Georgia:
Georgia already attract full houses of 55,000 for the visit of Russia and Nijaradze guarantees that would be the case for every Six Nations game. The Daily Telegraph can reveal that there are already advanced talks about Scotland becoming the first tier-one nation to visit Tbilisi.
“They showed willingness even though they have a very busy schedule,” Nijaradze said. “We are hopeful of finding an opportunity of hosting Scotland and that will be a great honour for us.”
This summer, Georgia will host the Under-20 World Championships which will be seen as another key staging post. Tbilisi already attracts more than six million tourists a year and Nijaradze has no doubts that it would be a hit with the travelling supporters.
Rugby Europe is to officially Request a Six Nations barrage play-off. The governing body of Europe will file an official request on Thursday, March 09 by chairman Octavian Morariu. The requested play-off will enable the creation of a path for emerging nations to play in the Six Nations.
Georgia’s dream of taking the step up could therefore be realized. With an increasingly prosperous under 20 system the country arguably has a clear path to sustainable development. Mid-year matches against Argentina, Canada and the USA are to add to Georgia’s rising global status. In June 2016 Georgia went undefeated in the Pacific Islands.
The Americas is also of interest to Rugby Europe in structural terms. The Americas Rugby Championship is to open to the possibility of promotion. It has previously been confirmed that a second division will be established in the coming years. The winner would either play a barrage play-off or directly replace the bottom side. Paraguay, Colombia, Trinidad & Tobago, Mexico, Guyana and the Cayman Islands are ranked 7th-12th in the Americas at present.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
This may be difficult to swallow for Romanian fans, but as the FRR president Hari Dumitras stated this week 'we have to admit Georgia is stronger than Romania'. Only the most severely jaundiced could argue otherwise.
These comments from the above blog have been further endorsed by the latest action in ENC, where Georgia has once again shown itself to be head and shoulders above the rest with a 50-6 demolition of Germany, who just a week ago had stunned Romania 41-38 on their home-ground. Indeed, the Lelos' predicament has become as much of an embarrassment for World Rugby as the Pacific Islands exclusion, but in the case of Georgia they can't even blame distance or inadequate stadiums. This is sheer snobbery by the 6 Nations.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
The problem is that Georgia can't really get any better while playing at this level. If we look at what happened with Argentina and Italy, they began to receive regular tests, both home and away, against all the world's top nations on a very regular basis for at least a decade before joining elite competition. Time to begin that process with Georgia and the onus is on their European 6 Nations counterparts in particular.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
The truth is our beloved code has traditionally been the domain of the snobs, public school Englishmen & Aussies, white South Africans, white New Zealanders (until the advent of professionalism opened the floodgates for the more naturally talented Pacific Islanders), and so on. Football and rugby league (in those very few countries where it is actually played) were always the preference of the working classes. & so it remains today - a snob's sport which looks down its nose at the rest of the international community. But when it comes to making a tidy profit out of a 20-team World Cup format, the non-elite will be invited along to a tournament they are not remotely prepared for.
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
Germany eyeing Six Nations — with Capri-Sun’s help
The billionaire who got Ali to advertise the popular drink is now funding his nation’s bid to compete with the elite of world rugby
Alex Lowe
February 23 2017, 12:01am, The Times
Muhammad Ali was reaching the end of his boxing career in 1979 when a marketing executive from Germany persuaded him to become the advertising spokesman for an obscure drink that was being launched in the United States. “I am the greatest, the whole world knows it,” Ali proclaimed, “but the day I stop boxing, Capri-Sun will be greatest.”
It was a sensational coup. Within 15 years, Capri-Sun was the market leader in the US and by 2004 it had global sales of five billion drink pouches a year, appearing in lunch boxes and picnic hampers in 100 different countries.
That marketing executive was Dr Hans-Peter Wild, a Cambridge University graduate from Heidelberg, one of two rugby strongholds in Germany, who is now worth $2.7 billion [about £2.1 billion]. For the past decade, Wild has been bankrolling German rugby with similarly bold ambitions.
Having initially set up a foundation to encourage youth participation, Wild has now earmarked £30 million for high-performance infrastructure in Heidelberg, with a vision to create a professional franchise capable of competing in the European Challenge Cup and possibly the Guinness PRO12.
The target for the national team is for Germany to qualify for the 2019 World Cup and the 2020 Olympic Games — and then to start banging on the door of the Six Nations.
There is still some way to travel. Germany are ranked 22nd in the world and they were defeated 50-6 by Georgia, the standard-bearers for the second tier of European rugby, last weekend. But Germany have shown their potential with two notable victories this season, defeating Uruguay, who have appeared at three World Cups, 24-21 in November and then Romania 41-38 on February 11.
Germany’s belief is that, within a generation, they will not only be able to dance in the ring with the best teams in the world, but land punches too. “That is the ultimate goal,” Robert Mohr, the manager of Heidelberg’s Wild Rugby Academy, told The Times. “But nothing in our beautiful sport is straightforward.”
Georgia’s efforts to gain entry into the Six Nations have been repeatedly and controversially rebuffed. However, the German federation (Deutscher Rugby-Verband) believes that it could prise open the door to European rugby’s most protectionist club because, ultimately, money talks.
“If Germany had shown the same results as Georgia have, it would be easier for us to open up the Six Nations,” Manuel Wilhelm, sporting director of the DRV, said. “The German market, on a global scale, is just a different beast.
“I do not believe in Six Nations expansion but you need a relegation match between the last team of the Six Nations and the winners of the Rugby Europe Championship. You have to open up that opportunity to grow the global sport.
“Now we have to catch up with Georgia. Those results [against Uruguay and Romania] help to show us that we are moving in the right direction, that reaching a World Cup and Olympics can be a real ambition. The reaction to the Romania result in World Rugby and Rugby Europe showed there is a big interest in developing another major rugby-playing nation.”
Germany have not always been international minnows. Rugby was established there before football, introduced to Heidelberg by students and in Hanover through the royal links with England that date back to George I in 1714.
Germany won a silver medal at the 1900 Olympics and they beat France 3-0 in 1938. The ball from that game is in the German rugby museum in Heidelberg. “France still blame it on the referee,” Mohr joked.
The national team was wrecked by the Second World War, and although rugby still rivalled football in the early 1950s, the Miracle Of Bern, when the depleted football team won the 1954 World Cup, saw the round- ball game explode in popularity. “That was the death of rugby,” Wilhelm said.
This could be the rebirth though. Wild initially established the Wild Rugby Academy in 2007 to boost participation at youth level but three years ago he decided to invest in the whole structure, striking a deal to run the high-performance programme and player development pathway.
Wild invested £3 million last year on new training pitches at the Heidelberg headquarters, he is funding a £12 million training centre, which is ready to be built, and spending at least the same again on a stadium.
Mohr, a former Germany No 8, was recruited from La Rochelle to manage the academy. His plan is a model similar to Argentina’s, where they have regional talent centres that feed into one professional franchise and the national team.
The Germany team at present are all amateur, comprising mainly coaches, soldiers and students. Sean Armstrong, their captain, was born in Australia. “We have established a team identity. You may be surprised but there are not a lot of big, heavy people in Germany,” Mohr said. “There are a lot of very good athletes. They are very smart. We want to implement a game where we move the ball a lot.” Pace, movement, keeping opponents on their toes; very Ali.
The Webb Ellis Cup will be in Frankfurt on March 4, when Germany tackle Belgium in the next round of the Rugby Europe Championship, a critical fixture on the two-year qualification campaign for Japan 2019.
With Georgia assured of a place and Romania still likely to land the second automatic spot, Germany are competing to enter the repechage.
“The opportunities for rugby in Germany are very big,” Mohr said. “It only takes a little bit of fire to inflame it.”
EURO HOPEFULS
Georgia
World ranking 12
Registered players 7,859
Very much the coming men, having won the second-tier tournament five times in a row. They boast a 10-team Premiership and will host the Under-20 World Rugby Championship this summer. Mamuka Gorgodze’s team will also get a crack at Wales in the autumn.
Romania
World ranking 16
Registered players 9,810
Not the force they threatened to become in the 1980s — before the country’s revolution — when they beat Wales, France and Scotland. The hope is that Timisoara Saracens, twinned with the English champions, and Welsh coach Lynn Howells can inspire a resurgence.
Russia
World ranking 18
Registered players 25,558
Two wins for Siberian side Enisei in the European Challenge Cup pool stages was a coup for Russia’s professional domestic competition, but a loss to Spain for the national XV this month compounded poor results in the sevens World Series.
Spain
World ranking 21
Registered players 34,822
Despite losing their title to El Salvador last season, Valladolid are the pre-eminent team in the Division de Honor. A Nou Camp sell-out for last season’s Top 14 final was encouraging.
Germany
World ranking 22
Registered players 11,189
The battle for the runners-up spot in the Rugby Europe Championship keeps the dream of World Cup qualification alive for Kobus Potgieter’s team. TV Pforzheim won the newly-expanded Bundesliga last May.
Interesting article. Thanks for sharing. Have to laugh at the reference to the 1900 Olympics though. There were 3 teams, and Germany finished last equal with Britain. Strange format, in fact. There were only 2 games. France beat both Germany and Britain, and that was all that happened...
If they're good enough to play at World Cups, why not in between?
An Italian blog states discussions are underway for the Azzurri to host the Lelos in November next year. Things don't move quickly in rugby, but eventually they move...
Nick Mallett slams decision to deny Georgia a place in the Six Nations
NICK MALLET has hit out at the Six Nations in the week chief executive John Feehan denied Georgia’s claims for a place in the tournament because it is not their role “to develop other nations”.
Mallett, the former South Africa coach who was in charge of Italy for four years until the 2011 World Cup, reckons that approach is narrow-minded and blocks the development of the sport outside its natural heartlands.
There has been much debate about whether the Six Nations should introduce promotion and relegation after Georgia climbed above Italy in the world rankings. England World Cup-winning coach Sir Clive Woodward is one strong voice in favour, suggesting it would sharpen an Italian side facing a 10th straight defeat in the competition when they travel to Grand Slam-chasing England on Sunday.
But Mallett, whose record in the tournament features wins over Scotland and France, says the only way rugby can grow globally is by inviting more nations to the top table.
“The talk should be about how we allow Georgia, or Romania or whoever is ready, into the competition rather than kick one out,” said Mallett. “World rugby has to be about wider participation, finding an avenue for those teams to compete at the higher level, rather than casting one out to bring one in.
“This year, Georgia may be too strong for Italy, but there have been times when Georgia might have been too strong for Scotland, and how would that go down in Scotland if they had to play for promotion or relegation?
Momentum seems to be building. Somethings going to have to give fairly soon . . .
The president of the Italian Rugby Federation has suggested increasing the number of teams in the Six Nations as debate intensifies about the competition’s future. In their 18th season in the competition, Italy have been comprehensively beaten in both their opening two games, including a 63-10 thrashing by Ireland. They have won only 12 of their 87 matches in Six Nations history, sparking growing support for promotion and relegation to be introduced, including from World Cup-winning England coach Sir Clive Woodward.
Just got easier Georgians to travel to the EU anyway...
European Union member states on Feb. 27 approved visa-free travel for Georgia, after agreeing safeguards to prevent any upsurge in arrivals from the former Soviet satellite.
Georgia, along with much larger Ukraine, has been urging the EU to grant visa-free travel so as to show its citizens that close ties with Europe can deliver concrete benefits.
EU Migration Commissioner Dimitris Avramopoulos said the decision marked “a historic day for Georgia and its citizens,” AFP reported.
“Today’s adoption recognizes the tremendous efforts undertaken by the Georgian authorities and the Georgian people to carry out far-reaching and difficult reforms,” Avramopoulos said, according to a statement of his remarks in Tblisi, the Georgian capital.
“These reforms also bring Georgia closer to EU standards, facilitating cooperation with the European Union and bringing the country a step forward on its European path,” he added.
Under the accord, which now requires formal signature by the 28 member states and the European Parliament, Georgian citizens will be able to travel visa-free for 90 days in the EU during any 180-day period.
The accord does not apply to the United Kingdom or Ireland.
Should there be promotion and relegation in the Six Nations, Europe's elite international rugby tournament?
Georgia's head coach Milton Haig speaks to CNN's Alex Thomas about his team's hopes of taking part in the competition.
Six Nations: Can England defend title and beat world record?
Georgia has won Europe's second-tier tournament eight times in the past nine years.
The East European nation is ranked 12th in the world, two places higher than Italy -- which was added to the old Five Nations format in 2000.
Italy has lost all three games so far in the 2017 Six Nations, but tested defending champion England before losing 36-15 at Twickenham on Saturday.
Romania into a 7-0 lead over Russia, not a good game so far. The Russians did this time allow the whole Romanian team in and didn't dick about with visas as they've done in the past, though they did only give them a hotel car park to train in so the Russians haven't yet grasped all the requirements of a host
Germany just beat Romania 41-38. I don't think we'll be seeing the Oaks in an expanded 6 Nations any time soon. But Germany just might not be too far away - and that's no joke. This result over a tier 2 team follows on from their narrow win over Uruguay in the AIs. & with the strength of the German enconomy and its close proximity to the current 6 nations competitors, who knows what the future may hold for Western Europe's most populous nation? 
Strange format, in fact. There were only 2 games. France beat both Germany and Britain, and that was all that happened...
