America

[morepork]

Thwarting democracy. Classic. Rich lister backers. Classic. Let’s see what the electoral college Vs popular vote throws up this cycle. Let’s also see immigration dominate the domestic narrative, ignoring an economy that needs to evolve and deal with the scientific dead end that populist focus is taking us down. Again. Fuck corporate welfare and a pox on it’s house.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.

Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.

Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.

Except in November there will be an election.

More than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.

Anyway I think this is probably the right thing - the second best time to plant a tree being now. Biden might have won but it seemed pretty unlikely. I don't doubt that he can govern (right now) but he's lost the ability to campaign and campaigns still matter. And now anyone is welcome to stand and get crushed by the support for Harris.

[Sandydragon]

While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.

Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.

Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.

Except in November there will be an election.

More than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.

Anyway I think this is probably the right thing - the second best time to plant a tree being now. Biden might have won but it seemed pretty unlikely. I don't doubt that he can govern (right now) but he's lost the ability to campaign and campaigns still matter. And now anyone is welcome to stand and get crushed by the support for Harris.

It's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Except in November there will be an election.

More than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.

Anyway I think this is probably the right thing - the second best time to plant a tree being now. Biden might have won but it seemed pretty unlikely. I don't doubt that he can govern (right now) but he's lost the ability to campaign and campaigns still matter. And now anyone is welcome to stand and get crushed by the support for Harris.

It's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.

Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.

[Sandydragon]

More than that, the rules say that the Convention decides. The delegates are only pledged if their candidate remains. As for "the D party" promoting a decent challenger, that just isn't how things are done. There was a challenger who wasn't some numpty but an actual sitting congressman who Biden defeated handily.

Anyway I think this is probably the right thing - the second best time to plant a tree being now. Biden might have won but it seemed pretty unlikely. I don't doubt that he can govern (right now) but he's lost the ability to campaign and campaigns still matter. And now anyone is welcome to stand and get crushed by the support for Harris.

It's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.

Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.

As pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.

[Puja]

It's true that Biden did have competition, but none of the big beasts went against him. There was never the sense of jeopardy over who might win compared to his nomination 4 years previously. A sitting president is given an almost free ride in many ways, which has helped cause this problem.

Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.

As pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.

It's just possible that the timing was close to perfect (excluding it happening way before the primaries) - any sooner and there would've been ambitious Dems eyeing up a potential run and taking lumps out of each other which is the last thing that was needed. Kamala Harris is very far from the perfect candidate, but she comes with the benefit of the Biden warchest, is an excellent demographic to attack Trump's age, criminality, racism, and facilitation of abortion bans, and it's not like many of the other options are perfect either. This close to the convention, the sack of cats is going to end up uniting around her pretty quickly, and concentrate on fighting for the VP role instead of assisting Trump's attack lines.

Who would be the best VP for her? It's tempting to say "Old White Male", but I don't think that would reassure any of the racists or misogynists particularly anyway (and let's face it, they were probably Trump voters anyway) and gives the impression of her being given a supervisor. Maybe Warnock from Georgia to burnish the Christian credentials of the ticket (although I don't know if that would necessitate a Senate election in Georgia, which might not be a good idea rn).

Puja

[Coco]

While I understand both your points, thats how it works here. Doesnt matter if he had a challenger. The D party should have promoted a decent challenger at that time. A primary was held and he won for the D party. The people spoke with their vote. Its been well known for nearly 4 yrs Biden's faculties were in decline. People chose to overlook it and act like nothing was wrong and the people speaking up with concerns were cast off as bigots, conspiracy theorists, and traitors. Reasonable people had valid concerns. Nothing changed until the donor money train vanished like a fart in the wind, then all of a sudden he needs to be forced out by his own party. Thats not democracy - thats a huge FU to the voters... and nothing short of resembling a coup.

Now the delegates will decide who runs and the people... the voters... will have no say.

Destroying the very democracy they harp on about day and night in the pursuit of power.

I’m always interested which events prompt responses from you on here. You have a very different perspective to most. Of course there’s a divide between party and supporters, but that’s not a new thing or limited to the democrats is it?

Of course when confidence drops the money dries up. It’s a business after all.

Does this strengthen or weaken DT’s chances in your mind?

There are divisions in each party.

Im inclined to think it strengthens DTs chances, especially if Kamala gets the nomination... She is less liked than Biden. I guess we have to see how it plays out - an Open Convention? I dont see Pelosi, Schumer, or Obama endorsing her and the DNC is August 19th-22nd.

[Coco]

Thwarting democracy. Classic. Rich lister backers. Classic. Let’s see what the electoral college Vs popular vote throws up this cycle. Let’s also see immigration dominate the domestic narrative, ignoring an economy that needs to evolve and deal with the scientific dead end that populist focus is taking us down. Again. Fuck corporate welfare and a pox on it’s house.

Only 29 states have electors that are bound by popular vote.

[Mikey Brown]

Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.

As pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.

It's just possible that the timing was close to perfect (excluding it happening way before the primaries) - any sooner and there would've been ambitious Dems eyeing up a potential run and taking lumps out of each other which is the last thing that was needed. Kamala Harris is very far from the perfect candidate, but she comes with the benefit of the Biden warchest, is an excellent demographic to attack Trump's age, criminality, racism, and facilitation of abortion bans, and it's not like many of the other options are perfect either. This close to the convention, the sack of cats is going to end up uniting around her pretty quickly, and concentrate on fighting for the VP role instead of assisting Trump's attack lines.

Who would be the best VP for her? It's tempting to say "Old White Male", but I don't think that would reassure any of the racists or misogynists particularly anyway (and let's face it, they were probably Trump voters anyway) and gives the impression of her being given a supervisor. Maybe Warnock from Georgia to burnish the Christian credentials of the ticket (although I don't know if that would necessitate a Senate election in Georgia, which might not be a good idea rn).

Puja

Just heard it mentioned that Obama can theoretically run as VP, and even become President again if Harris were to step down, which would be pretty funny though wildly unlikely. I'd hope it's likelier than Michelle at least, who for some reason people are still talking about as a serious candidate to run.

[Sandydragon]

Exactly, which is why it has taken something astoundingly bad to get him out of the way.

As pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.

It's just possible that the timing was close to perfect (excluding it happening way before the primaries) - any sooner and there would've been ambitious Dems eyeing up a potential run and taking lumps out of each other which is the last thing that was needed. Kamala Harris is very far from the perfect candidate, but she comes with the benefit of the Biden warchest, is an excellent demographic to attack Trump's age, criminality, racism, and facilitation of abortion bans, and it's not like many of the other options are perfect either. This close to the convention, the sack of cats is going to end up uniting around her pretty quickly, and concentrate on fighting for the VP role instead of assisting Trump's attack lines.

Who would be the best VP for her? It's tempting to say "Old White Male", but I don't think that would reassure any of the racists or misogynists particularly anyway (and let's face it, they were probably Trump voters anyway) and gives the impression of her being given a supervisor. Maybe Warnock from Georgia to burnish the Christian credentials of the ticket (although I don't know if that would necessitate a Senate election in Georgia, which might not be a good idea rn).

Puja

I think her VP will best be determined by any states in the balance. Winsome in California brings little ot the party realistically. Maybe someone from one of the mid west/northern swing states?

I do agree that this is the best of a bad job - too much time and the Dems would have gone into full bore civil war and that would be an unedifying sight. But ideally, this would have been sorted before the primaries, and this whole palava wouldn't be required. The Republicans will make a lot of hay out of the Democrats' perceived lack of respect for democracy.

The Michele Obama candidature is interesting. She has literally no experience at that level of government, but does have name recognition. Polling suggests that she would beat Trump, so it's not a surprise that her name continues to be floated. It would be an interesting twist.

[morepork]

Oh for the days when policy was robustly debated. Mondale was the last one to try when up against free Markey boy Reagan and got crushed under an avalanche of populist ideology. Now here we are. Terrified of the possibility of a woman running.

[Banquo]

Oh for the days when policy was robustly debated. Mondale was the last one to try when up against free Markey boy Reagan and got crushed under an avalanche of populist ideology. Now here we are. Terrified of the possibility of a woman running.

well except for Michelle and Tay Tay. Probably more of an indictment

[Puja]

The Michele Obama candidature is interesting. She has literally no experience at that level of government, but does have name recognition. Polling suggests that she would beat Trump, so it's not a surprise that her name continues to be floated. It would be an interesting twist.

The other week, I saw her name trending on twitter, wondered what it was and discovered a widespread conspiracy theory that she is trans, including AI photographs of her as teenage "Big Mikey" alongside a teenage Barack, analysis of her "manly features" (with comparisons to Melania and bonus racism), and dissections of pictures showing folds in her trousers that are "clearly a penis".

And you know, for a fact, that Trump would absolutely adopt that if she ran. That is 100%, perfectly, on brand for him.

I have absolutely no surprise that she has no interest in getting involved in politics.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-tru ... 5ba81032bb

​Includes

"I believe wholeheartedly, Donald Trump and Butler County's JD Vance are the last chance to save our country," said George Lang, a Republican state senator. "Politically, I'm afraid if we lose this one, it's going to take a civil war to save the country and it will be saved. It's the greatest experiment in the history of mankind."

[morepork]

The Michele Obama candidature is interesting. She has literally no experience at that level of government, but does have name recognition. Polling suggests that she would beat Trump, so it's not a surprise that her name continues to be floated. It would be an interesting twist.

The other week, I saw her name trending on twitter, wondered what it was and discovered a widespread conspiracy theory that she is trans, including AI photographs of her as teenage "Big Mikey" alongside a teenage Barack, analysis of her "manly features" (with comparisons to Melania and bonus racism), and dissections of pictures showing folds in her trousers that are "clearly a penis".

And you know, for a fact, that Trump would absolutely adopt that if she ran. That is 100%, perfectly, on brand for him.

I have absolutely no surprise that she has no interest in getting involved in politics.

Puja

You need to wash your browsing history. Kamala Harris has skeletons in her closet that makes me skeptical of her motivation for incarcerating many citizens for minor infringement of cannibus laws, but debating whether or not she has a Kok comes a very distant second.

[Son of Mathonwy]

https://apnews.com/article/jd-vance-tru ... 5ba81032bb

​Includes

"I believe wholeheartedly, Donald Trump and Butler County's JD Vance are the last chance to save our country," said George Lang, a Republican state senator. "Politically, I'm afraid if we lose this one, it's going to take a civil war to save the country and it will be saved. It's the greatest experiment in the history of mankind."

Very inciteful.

[Son of Mathonwy]

As pointed out below, thank heavens for the early debate. I don't think the fact that Joe Biden was getting older and frailer is a huge shock to anyone and had to be factored in, but that debate was abysmal, followed up by the NATO conference. `hopefully, this hasn't been done too late.

It's just possible that the timing was close to perfect (excluding it happening way before the primaries) - any sooner and there would've been ambitious Dems eyeing up a potential run and taking lumps out of each other which is the last thing that was needed. Kamala Harris is very far from the perfect candidate, but she comes with the benefit of the Biden warchest, is an excellent demographic to attack Trump's age, criminality, racism, and facilitation of abortion bans, and it's not like many of the other options are perfect either. This close to the convention, the sack of cats is going to end up uniting around her pretty quickly, and concentrate on fighting for the VP role instead of assisting Trump's attack lines.

Who would be the best VP for her? It's tempting to say "Old White Male", but I don't think that would reassure any of the racists or misogynists particularly anyway (and let's face it, they were probably Trump voters anyway) and gives the impression of her being given a supervisor. Maybe Warnock from Georgia to burnish the Christian credentials of the ticket (although I don't know if that would necessitate a Senate election in Georgia, which might not be a good idea rn).

Puja

I think her VP will best be determined by any states in the balance. Winsome in California brings little ot the party realistically. Maybe someone from one of the mid west/northern swing states?

I do agree that this is the best of a bad job - too much time and the Dems would have gone into full bore civil war and that would be an unedifying sight. But ideally, this would have been sorted before the primaries, and this whole palava wouldn't be required. The Republicans will make a lot of hay out of the Democrats' perceived lack of respect for democracy.

The Michele Obama candidature is interesting. She has literally no experience at that level of government, but does have name recognition. Polling suggests that she would beat Trump, so it's not a surprise that her name continues to be floated. It would be an interesting twist.

If they had actually forced him out or fudged the rules 1922 committee style, then they might have a point. As it is, Biden stood down, there's nothing in it. Perhaps the Republicans would have preferred them to have stormed the White House with a mob - that would be more their style.

[Which Tyler]

Republicans don't let little things like "reality" get in the way of their smears and attacks

[Sandydragon]

It's just possible that the timing was close to perfect (excluding it happening way before the primaries) - any sooner and there would've been ambitious Dems eyeing up a potential run and taking lumps out of each other which is the last thing that was needed. Kamala Harris is very far from the perfect candidate, but she comes with the benefit of the Biden warchest, is an excellent demographic to attack Trump's age, criminality, racism, and facilitation of abortion bans, and it's not like many of the other options are perfect either. This close to the convention, the sack of cats is going to end up uniting around her pretty quickly, and concentrate on fighting for the VP role instead of assisting Trump's attack lines.

Who would be the best VP for her? It's tempting to say "Old White Male", but I don't think that would reassure any of the racists or misogynists particularly anyway (and let's face it, they were probably Trump voters anyway) and gives the impression of her being given a supervisor. Maybe Warnock from Georgia to burnish the Christian credentials of the ticket (although I don't know if that would necessitate a Senate election in Georgia, which might not be a good idea rn).

Puja

I think her VP will best be determined by any states in the balance. Winsome in California brings little ot the party realistically. Maybe someone from one of the mid west/northern swing states?

I do agree that this is the best of a bad job - too much time and the Dems would have gone into full bore civil war and that would be an unedifying sight. But ideally, this would have been sorted before the primaries, and this whole palava wouldn't be required. The Republicans will make a lot of hay out of the Democrats' perceived lack of respect for democracy.

The Michele Obama candidature is interesting. She has literally no experience at that level of government, but does have name recognition. Polling suggests that she would beat Trump, so it's not a surprise that her name continues to be floated. It would be an interesting twist.

If they had actually forced him out or fudged the rules 1922 committee style, then they might have a point. As it is, Biden stood down, there's nothing in it. Perhaps the Republicans would have preferred them to have stormed the White House with a mob - that would be more their style.

I don’t think the facts will matter much. This will be painted as a clear conspiracy.

[Mikey Brown]

It’s so funny the idea this can now be a thing anybody cares about or is morally outraged over. Of course he got a bit of a nudge. He can’t fucking talk.

[Sandydragon]

It’s so funny the idea this can now be a thing anybody cares about or is morally outraged over. Of course he got a bit of a nudge. He can’t fucking talk.

Vance and Trump are suggesting that there’s been a coup in the Democrat party. If the Dems win later this year then their usual rhetoric will be even more explosive.

It will be another stolen election. I think the chances of violence in the aftermath will be high than they were last time round

[Which Tyler]

If the Dems win later this year then their usual rhetoric will be even more explosive.

It will be another stolen election. I think the chances of violence in the aftermath will be high than they were last time round

Both of these were already the case, regardless of who the Dem candidates was.

[Sandydragon]

If the Dems win later this year then their usual rhetoric will be even more explosive.

It will be another stolen election. I think the chances of violence in the aftermath will be high than they were last time round

Both of these were already the case, regardless of who the Dem candidates was.

More ammunition though. Just adding to the number/enthusiasm of the crazies. The Dems used to do candidate selection in smoke filled rooms so it’s not hard to suggest a conspiracy theory that this has been a planned anti-democratic move.

I think that’s bs, but in terms of whooping up the MAGA base it’s just more fuel for the fire.

[paddy no 11]

I think vance is stinking the place out so far. Throwing out crazy statements etc

He's also pitching himself as the next don and there's only room for 1 messiah on the ticket, he's hoovering up fcuk all casual voters I'd say

[Puja]

I think vance is stinking the place out so far. Throwing out crazy statements etc

He's also pitching himself as the next don and there's only room for 1 messiah on the ticket, he's hoovering up fcuk all casual voters I'd say

I heard it proposed that Vance was picked because Trump was overconfident - rather than picking a strategically valuable VP of a sane(ish), equable, Christian who could reassure casuals that an adult was in the room (Mike Pence 2.0, if you will), he thought that he was guaranteed a victory against Biden and doubled down on MAGA lunacy. Makes sense to me.

Puja