Snap General Election called

[Puja]

Realising that not all Conservatives are fascists might help you sort it. Google some of the arch fascist Michel Gove’s ideas and policies whilst he was prisons minister and you’ll get the idea. Even this fascist* was putting forward Timpson’s view to his local MP and local Conservative Party long before it suddenly became fashionable as of yesterday. I know we’re all awful but you can sometimes slip a cigarette paper between all the members on policy/decency/awfulness. Though, that might be because we’re all slimy or because we are soaked in the blood of the working class.

*am I still a facist if I’m no longer a member? What if I tell you I voted Lib Dem in my local Metro Mayor election? Complicated innit.

Holy strawman, Batman. When did I call him (or you, or all Conservatives) fascists? I just found it odd that a family known for being very pro-rehabilitation of ex-convicts would join a party that is generally famous for a more "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" and "people should take responsibility for their own actions" attitude to law and order.

Puja

Taking responsibility for your actions is usually the start to changing behaviour.

True, but generally there's some background on why that behaviour happened in the first place, rather than just "poor moral fibre". Better crime preventing methods tend to start by addressing those.

Puja

[Stom]

The thing that baffles me is that his dad was also of a similar mindset and set up Timpsons as that kind of business... yet his brother was a Conservative MP. Sort out that family dynamic, if you can.

Puja

Realising that not all Conservatives are fascists might help you sort it. Google some of the arch fascist Michel Gove’s ideas and policies whilst he was prisons minister and you’ll get the idea. Even this fascist* was putting forward Timpson’s view to his local MP and local Conservative Party long before it suddenly became fashionable as of yesterday. I know we’re all awful but you can sometimes slip a cigarette paper between all the members on policy/decency/awfulness. Though, that might be because we’re all slimy or because we are soaked in the blood of the working class.

*am I still a facist if I’m no longer a member? What if I tell you I voted Lib Dem in my local Metro Mayor election? Complicated innit.

Holy strawman, Batman. When did I call him (or you, or all Conservatives) fascists? I just found it odd that a family known for being very pro-rehabilitation of ex-convicts would join a party that is generally famous for a more "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" and "people should take responsibility for their own actions" attitude to law and order.

Puja

Back in the early 2000s I was part of a debate and took part in a summer school on law policy. There were multiple members of the Tory party involved, some of whom were very much for rehabilitation.

It was probably the largest part of the party until thatcher. And one reason why she was responsible for the awful political situation we find ourselves in. Pretty much every reprehensible policy can draw its lines back to her

[Puja]

Realising that not all Conservatives are fascists might help you sort it. Google some of the arch fascist Michel Gove’s ideas and policies whilst he was prisons minister and you’ll get the idea. Even this fascist* was putting forward Timpson’s view to his local MP and local Conservative Party long before it suddenly became fashionable as of yesterday. I know we’re all awful but you can sometimes slip a cigarette paper between all the members on policy/decency/awfulness. Though, that might be because we’re all slimy or because we are soaked in the blood of the working class.

*am I still a facist if I’m no longer a member? What if I tell you I voted Lib Dem in my local Metro Mayor election? Complicated innit.

Holy strawman, Batman. When did I call him (or you, or all Conservatives) fascists? I just found it odd that a family known for being very pro-rehabilitation of ex-convicts would join a party that is generally famous for a more "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" and "people should take responsibility for their own actions" attitude to law and order.

Puja

Back in the early 2000s I was part of a debate and took part in a summer school on law policy. There were multiple members of the Tory party involved, some of whom were very much for rehabilitation.

It was probably the largest part of the party until thatcher. And one reason why she was responsible for the awful political situation we find ourselves in. Pretty much every reprehensible policy can draw its lines back to her

I think it's safe to say that Thatcher had such an outsize effect on the Conservative party (and British politics in general tbh), that anything before her can't really be considered canon to the modern concept of "the Conservatives".

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Realising that not all Conservatives are fascists might help you sort it. Google some of the arch fascist Michel Gove’s ideas and policies whilst he was prisons minister and you’ll get the idea. Even this fascist* was putting forward Timpson’s view to his local MP and local Conservative Party long before it suddenly became fashionable as of yesterday. I know we’re all awful but you can sometimes slip a cigarette paper between all the members on policy/decency/awfulness. Though, that might be because we’re all slimy or because we are soaked in the blood of the working class.

*am I still a facist if I’m no longer a member? What if I tell you I voted Lib Dem in my local Metro Mayor election? Complicated innit.

Holy strawman, Batman. When did I call him (or you, or all Conservatives) fascists? I just found it odd that a family known for being very pro-rehabilitation of ex-convicts would join a party that is generally famous for a more "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" and "people should take responsibility for their own actions" attitude to law and order.

Puja

There were multiple members of the Tory party involved, some of whom were very much for rehabilitation.

There still was back when I was a member not too many years ago, at least in circles I mixed in. It just isn’t popular with the public at large - as a whole and obvs as a right of centre subsection - so if you want to win votes as the Conservative Party you tend to stay away from it. Albeit, as previously mentioned, Gove did some good work on it whilst Prisons Minister.

[Which Tyler]

Easy to forget that traditional one nation tories exist, and the biggest reason I was blue leaning as a young man.

They pretty much only exist as voters and members). The MPs were purged in 2019, when they had to sign a letter of loyalty to Johnson and Brexit, or be de-selected (Clarke, Soams, Stewart etc etc).
Some held on, either keeping their head down, and hoping to change things from the inside (Buckland, Mordaunt) or deciding that pragmatism for their political career was more important (Chalk). I'm sure there are plenty of other names as well, but currently, they don't look likely to "take back control".

The current tory party aren't fascist (and I don't think anyone here has said anything like that), but they are flirting hard with the pseudo-fascists and neo-fascists, and the hardest flirters have been being rewarded with important cabinet positions over the last 5 years.
There's a huge difference between "the tory party" and "the current tory party". The current tory party absolutely needed to be kicked out, and kicked out HARD. It's up for debate whether they learn the right lessons and move back to a small-c conservative party, or the wrong lessons and move further into the Reform space - in which case, I will start labelling "the current tory party" as pseudo-fascists - the party that is, not necessarily their voters, they'd merely be enablers (knowingly or otherwise).

[Stom]

Holy strawman, Batman. When did I call him (or you, or all Conservatives) fascists? I just found it odd that a family known for being very pro-rehabilitation of ex-convicts would join a party that is generally famous for a more "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" and "people should take responsibility for their own actions" attitude to law and order.

Puja

Back in the early 2000s I was part of a debate and took part in a summer school on law policy. There were multiple members of the Tory party involved, some of whom were very much for rehabilitation.

It was probably the largest part of the party until thatcher. And one reason why she was responsible for the awful political situation we find ourselves in. Pretty much every reprehensible policy can draw its lines back to her

I think it's safe to say that Thatcher had such an outsize effect on the Conservative party (and British politics in general tbh), that anything before her can't really be considered canon to the modern concept of "the Conservatives".

Puja

I agree. But I grew up on the likes of Clarke and Heseltine, and then later, God forbid, on the first incarnation of Boris as a populist one nation Tory standing against Blair’s profiteering.

It was only in my early 20s that I realized that the more appropriate home for my views was Labour, coincidentally when Blair was gone.

My point is that for years, there were more conservatives who I could associate with than Labour, who had many downright terrible ministers.

But it all goes back to the specter of Thatcher, and the damage her (and Reagan’s) policies had on the world.

[Stom]

Easy to forget that traditional one nation tories exist, and the biggest reason I was blue leaning as a young man.

They pretty much only exist as voters and members). The MPs were purged in 2019, when they had to sign a letter of loyalty to Johnson and Brexit, or be de-selected (Clarke, Soams, Stewart etc etc).
Some held on, either keeping their head down, and hoping to change things from the inside (Buckland, Mordaunt) or deciding that pragmatism for their political career was more important (Chalk). I'm sure there are plenty of other names as well, but currently, they don't look likely to "take back control".

The current tory party aren't fascist (and I don't think anyone here has said anything like that), but they are flirting hard with the pseudo-fascists and neo-fascists, and the hardest flirters have been being rewarded with important cabinet positions over the last 5 years.
There's a huge difference between "the tory party" and "the current tory party". The current tory party absolutely needed to be kicked out, and kicked out HARD. It's up for debate whether they learn the right lessons and move back to a small-c conservative party, or the wrong lessons and move further into the Reform space - in which case, I will start labelling "the current tory party" as pseudo-fascists - the party that is, not necessarily their voters, they'd merely be enablers (knowingly or otherwise).

Well yes. And I think that was mells point: just because the Tory party has lurched far to the right doesn’t mean there aren’t many conservatives who share many views with us more liberal, left leaning folks.

In fact, while I have radical views for today, they’re not radical for a conservative pre thatcher. The current form of neo-capitalism does not align with the idea that anyone can have a business idea and build it. There’s way too much power in the hands of major corporations and their shareholders.

And while I welcome the sensible changes Starmer is putting in place, there can’t be real change until we pretty much destroy the current system… and I only think that’ll happen when we’re the retirees.

[Which Tyler]

Well yes. And I think that was mells point: just because the Tory party has lurched far to the right doesn’t mean there aren’t many conservatives who share many views with us more liberal, left leaning folks.

Of course, but that doesn't make it any less of a straw man, fighting against a claim that wasn't being made.

[Mellsblue]

Well yes. And I think that was mells point: just because the Tory party has lurched far to the right doesn’t mean there aren’t many conservatives who share many views with us more liberal, left leaning folks.

Of course, but that doesn't make it any less of a straw man, fighting against a claim that wasn't being made.

Conservatives have been labelled fascists in numerous spaces, just by dint of being Conservatives. Puja just happened to be the straw that broke the camel’s back with his flippant and lazy final sentence. Helped by MikeyB’s utterances about Conservatives being awful earlier in the thread.
As always, given we’re a bunch of nobodies arguing anonymously on an internet backwater, my post was semi unserious in its tone and, as already mentioned, was full of hyperbole to sit with the current trend, eg #stopthecoup.

[Mikey Brown]

Pfft. It's all relative. I'm sort of unsure if my post implied all conservatives are awful, or just better than Braverman.

Everything and everyone being referred to as fascist (not that I think Puja did that?) does seem to be a particularly unhelpful trend in whiny internet politics chat though.

[Stom]

Pfft. It's all relative. I'm sort of unsure if my post implied all conservatives are awful, or just better than Braverman.

Everything and everyone being referred to as fascist (not that I think Puja did that?) does seem to be a particularly unhelpful trend in whiny internet politics chat though.

Doesn’t help that things like Ecco’s “how to spot a fascist” have come back in popularity, and now everyone is noticing that, well, a lot of hardline “conservatives” are espousing pretty fascist points of view…

As ever, if we want a discussion, we need to stop labeling the person and start labeling the actions/words. So, Braverman isn’t a fascist, but the words she speaks are fascist.

But we’re not going to change that, just like the labeling of socialist views as communist.

Btw, my phone censors fascist but not communist… make of that what you will

[Mellsblue]

Pfft. It's all relative. I'm sort of unsure if my post implied all conservatives are awful, or just better than Braverman.

Everything and everyone being referred to as fascist (not that I think Puja did that?) does seem to be a particularly unhelpful trend in whiny internet politics chat though.

Apols if I misinterpreted. It is a big annoyance to me. I’ve had numerous interactions with people who will calmly tell me that I can’t be a good person and be a Tory. My favourite was a priest/reverend (whichever is CofE) who told me this after a meeting called to discuss a public sector led social housing scheme I’d initiated in my own spare time. Go figure.
As for the social media induced hyperbole. Well, it can fark off and take social media with it.

[Stom]

Pfft. It's all relative. I'm sort of unsure if my post implied all conservatives are awful, or just better than Braverman.

Everything and everyone being referred to as fascist (not that I think Puja did that?) does seem to be a particularly unhelpful trend in whiny internet politics chat though.

Apols if I misinterpreted. It is a big annoyance to me. I’ve had numerous interactions with people who will calmly tell me that I can’t be a good person and be a Tory. My favourite was a priest/reverend (whichever is CofE) who told me this after a meeting called to discuss a public sector led social housing scheme I’d initiated in my own spare time. Go figure.
As for the social media induced hyperbole. Well, it can fark off and take social media with it.

I’m afraid I don’t get how you can vote for this Conservative Party, and I do feel that if you were to have done so, you’re implicitly enabling all the pretty awful things they do, even if you disagree.

But I also think you can be a conservative and decide not to vote for this party in their current iteration.

And I also believe it’s no where near as bad as voting for Fidesz over here.

[Puja]

Pfft. It's all relative. I'm sort of unsure if my post implied all conservatives are awful, or just better than Braverman.

Everything and everyone being referred to as fascist (not that I think Puja did that?) does seem to be a particularly unhelpful trend in whiny internet politics chat though.

Apols if I misinterpreted. It is a big annoyance to me. I’ve had numerous interactions with people who will calmly tell me that I can’t be a good person and be a Tory. My favourite was a priest/reverend (whichever is CofE) who told me this after a meeting called to discuss a public sector led social housing scheme I’d initiated in my own spare time. Go figure.
As for the social media induced hyperbole. Well, it can fark off and take social media with it.

Fair enough - it was a cheap joke from me at the expense of Timpson the Tory (and by extension, Conservatives in general), and I'll apologise for it.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah I think that's the thing that's hard to parse for anyone remotely left of centre. I can easily imagine an evil Tory that wants to burn the poor to heat their mansion house, but a theoretical conservative who disagrees with much of what the current party are doing yet still sees the opposition as inherently worse is harder to wrap your head around.

There's something positive they're doing, or something negative the opposition are doing, that means all the bad stuff is worth ignoring. I'm not sure what those things were or why this recent election happened to be the breaking point for so many of those that continued supporting them since the Brexit shambles.

The easy answer is Jeremy Corbyn, I suppose.

[Mellsblue]

Pfft. It's all relative. I'm sort of unsure if my post implied all conservatives are awful, or just better than Braverman.

Everything and everyone being referred to as fascist (not that I think Puja did that?) does seem to be a particularly unhelpful trend in whiny internet politics chat though.

Apols if I misinterpreted. It is a big annoyance to me. I’ve had numerous interactions with people who will calmly tell me that I can’t be a good person and be a Tory. My favourite was a priest/reverend (whichever is CofE) who told me this after a meeting called to discuss a public sector led social housing scheme I’d initiated in my own spare time. Go figure.
As for the social media induced hyperbole. Well, it can fark off and take social media with it.

I’m afraid I don’t get how you can vote for this Conservative Party, and I do feel that if you were to have done so, you’re implicitly enabling all the pretty awful things they do, even if you disagree.

But I also think you can be a conservative and decide not to vote for this party in their current iteration.

And I also believe it’s no where near as bad as voting for Fidesz over here.

I voted for this Conservative Party as I know the MP is a good bloke, a One Nation Conservative* and someone who enjoys and is a good constituency mp. He and Boris don’t get along if that helps people reconcile my decision. I also voted Con as I believe a strong official opposition is a necessity for good law making and if the Tories lost my seat then there most definitely would not be a strong official opposition - not that there is now, particularly. Having as many One Nation MPs as possible in the cpp is also important to me (and the country, imo) as I want the party to move back towards the centre over the next five years. As Starmer has done with Labour.

[Stom]

Apols if I misinterpreted. It is a big annoyance to me. I’ve had numerous interactions with people who will calmly tell me that I can’t be a good person and be a Tory. My favourite was a priest/reverend (whichever is CofE) who told me this after a meeting called to discuss a public sector led social housing scheme I’d initiated in my own spare time. Go figure.
As for the social media induced hyperbole. Well, it can fark off and take social media with it.

I’m afraid I don’t get how you can vote for this Conservative Party, and I do feel that if you were to have done so, you’re implicitly enabling all the pretty awful things they do, even if you disagree.

But I also think you can be a conservative and decide not to vote for this party in their current iteration.

And I also believe it’s no where near as bad as voting for Fidesz over here.

I voted for this Conservative Party as I know the MP is a good bloke, a One Nation Conservative* and someone who enjoys and is a good constituency mp. He and Boris don’t get along if that helps people reconcile my decision. I also voted Con as I believe a strong official opposition is a necessity for good law making and if the Tories lost my seat then there most definitely would not be a strong official opposition - not that there is now, particularly. Having as many One Nation MPs as possible in the cpp is also important to me (and the country, imo) as I want the party to move back towards the centre over the next five years. As Starmer has done with Labour.

Sure, it's all understandable

Politics is often complex, and different in different areas/places. Like the Conservative choice in "my" local area for years being Zac Goldsmith, the definition of: yeah, I agree with half of what you say, and vehemently disagree with the other half...

Except here, over here there is no excuse to vote Fidesz. And there's no way to change my mind on that.

[morepork]

Apols if I misinterpreted. It is a big annoyance to me. I’ve had numerous interactions with people who will calmly tell me that I can’t be a good person and be a Tory. My favourite was a priest/reverend (whichever is CofE) who told me this after a meeting called to discuss a public sector led social housing scheme I’d initiated in my own spare time. Go figure.
As for the social media induced hyperbole. Well, it can fark off and take social media with it.

I’m afraid I don’t get how you can vote for this Conservative Party, and I do feel that if you were to have done so, you’re implicitly enabling all the pretty awful things they do, even if you disagree.

But I also think you can be a conservative and decide not to vote for this party in their current iteration.

And I also believe it’s no where near as bad as voting for Fidesz over here.

I voted for this Conservative Party as I know the MP is a good bloke, a One Nation Conservative* and someone who enjoys and is a good constituency mp. He and Boris don’t get along if that helps people reconcile my decision. I also voted Con as I believe a strong official opposition is a necessity for good law making and if the Tories lost my seat then there most definitely would not be a strong official opposition - not that there is now, particularly. Having as many One Nation MPs as possible in the cpp is also important to me (and the country, imo) as I want the party to move back towards the centre over the next five years. As Starmer has done with Labour.

I don't get in brother. In a FFP environment how could your vote not enable the most toxic platforms of that party?

[Puja]

I’m afraid I don’t get how you can vote for this Conservative Party, and I do feel that if you were to have done so, you’re implicitly enabling all the pretty awful things they do, even if you disagree.

But I also think you can be a conservative and decide not to vote for this party in their current iteration.

And I also believe it’s no where near as bad as voting for Fidesz over here.

I voted for this Conservative Party as I know the MP is a good bloke, a One Nation Conservative* and someone who enjoys and is a good constituency mp. He and Boris don’t get along if that helps people reconcile my decision. I also voted Con as I believe a strong official opposition is a necessity for good law making and if the Tories lost my seat then there most definitely would not be a strong official opposition - not that there is now, particularly. Having as many One Nation MPs as possible in the cpp is also important to me (and the country, imo) as I want the party to move back towards the centre over the next five years. As Starmer has done with Labour.

I don't get in brother. In a FFP environment how could your vote not enable the most toxic platforms of that party?

The Conservatives are going to elect their new leader and the first rounds of that are going to be voted for by the Conservative MPs. If the only ones left after the July 4th mass-murder are toxic bigoted fuckers, then they will vote for a toxic bigoted fucker leader, especially if they can point to everyone who was sensible getting voted out as evidence that the "Will of the People" is that they need to go further right to win elections. So therefore keeping a sensible Tory MP in could be seen as a good plan.

I mean, I think they will select a toxic bigoted fucker anyway, simply because the majority of those who kept their seats are the rabid fringe cause they were in safe seats (and because the Party membership get the final call when it's narrowed down to two candidates, and last time they did that, they picked Truss), but I can see Mell's logic there, even if it's not a decision I would make.

Puja

[Stom]

I voted for this Conservative Party as I know the MP is a good bloke, a One Nation Conservative* and someone who enjoys and is a good constituency mp. He and Boris don’t get along if that helps people reconcile my decision. I also voted Con as I believe a strong official opposition is a necessity for good law making and if the Tories lost my seat then there most definitely would not be a strong official opposition - not that there is now, particularly. Having as many One Nation MPs as possible in the cpp is also important to me (and the country, imo) as I want the party to move back towards the centre over the next five years. As Starmer has done with Labour.

I don't get in brother. In a FFP environment how could your vote not enable the most toxic platforms of that party?

The Conservatives are going to elect their new leader and the first rounds of that are going to be voted for by the Conservative MPs. If the only ones left after the July 4th mass-murder are toxic bigoted fuckers, then they will vote for a toxic bigoted fucker leader, especially if they can point to everyone who was sensible getting voted out as evidence that the "Will of the People" is that they need to go further right to win elections. So therefore keeping a sensible Tory MP in could be seen as a good plan.

I mean, I think they will select a toxic bigoted fucker anyway, simply because the majority of those who kept their seats are the rabid fringe cause they were in safe seats (and because the Party membership get the final call when it's narrowed down to two candidates, and last time they did that, they picked Truss), but I can see Mell's logic there, even if it's not a decision I would make.

Puja

And the polls have Braverman ahead

[morepork]

I can see it too and am not trying to play the man over the ball. I mean the man not the ball. I just cannot get my head around assuming "moderates" will ride in on a white horse, on either side of the political spectrum, and that a push to the assumed centre is the way to go. There needs to be a sea change here, one that serves people and not corporate doublespeak. There has been 40 years of this supposed centre catering to Mammon. It hasn't worked. The data is in.

[Stom]

I can see it too and am not trying to play the man over the ball. I mean the man not the ball. I just cannot get my head around assuming "moderates" will ride in on a white horse, on either side of the political spectrum, and that a push to the assumed centre is the way to go. There needs to be a sea change here, one that serves people and not corporate doublespeak. There has been 40 years of this supposed centre catering to Mammon. It hasn't worked. The data is in.

Two things here.

1) It's FPTP: Mells literally had a choice for an individual, and chose that individual based on his views.

2) Unfortunately, for us to have a complete sea change would need buy-in worldwide, and we're not likely to see that, especially from 'Murica. We cannot switch economic system today, so we need to simply make the best job of what we have available to us.

Starmer has come in and appeased centrists. I totally (naively) expect him to do some pretty left leaning things, but the total change in tack over shareholder profits is not going to come on the back of one country.

[Mellsblue]

I’m afraid I don’t get how you can vote for this Conservative Party, and I do feel that if you were to have done so, you’re implicitly enabling all the pretty awful things they do, even if you disagree.

But I also think you can be a conservative and decide not to vote for this party in their current iteration.

And I also believe it’s no where near as bad as voting for Fidesz over here.

I voted for this Conservative Party as I know the MP is a good bloke, a One Nation Conservative* and someone who enjoys and is a good constituency mp. He and Boris don’t get along if that helps people reconcile my decision. I also voted Con as I believe a strong official opposition is a necessity for good law making and if the Tories lost my seat then there most definitely would not be a strong official opposition - not that there is now, particularly. Having as many One Nation MPs as possible in the cpp is also important to me (and the country, imo) as I want the party to move back towards the centre over the next five years. As Starmer has done with Labour.

I don't get in brother. In a FFP environment how could your vote not enable the most toxic platforms of that party?

Because I’m voting for someone who doesn’t agree with the most toxic platforms of the party. If I were in Suella Braverman’s seat I wouldn’t vote for her, as an example.

[Mellsblue]

I can see it too and am not trying to play the man over the ball. I mean the man not the ball. I just cannot get my head around assuming "moderates" will ride in on a white horse, on either side of the political spectrum, and that a push to the assumed centre is the way to go. There needs to be a sea change here, one that serves people and not corporate doublespeak. There has been 40 years of this supposed centre catering to Mammon. It hasn't worked. The data is in.

Two things here.

1) It's FPTP: Mells literally had a choice for an individual, and chose that individual based on his views.

2) Unfortunately, for us to have a complete sea change would need buy-in worldwide, and we're not likely to see that, especially from 'Murica. We cannot switch economic system today, so we need to simply make the best job of what we have available to us.

Starmer has come in and appeased centrists. I totally (naively) expect him to do some pretty left leaning things, but the total change in tack over shareholder profits is not going to come on the back of one country.

3) Even though it should carry that much weight, my vote won’t change any seas.

[Mellsblue]

I voted for this Conservative Party as I know the MP is a good bloke, a One Nation Conservative* and someone who enjoys and is a good constituency mp. He and Boris don’t get along if that helps people reconcile my decision. I also voted Con as I believe a strong official opposition is a necessity for good law making and if the Tories lost my seat then there most definitely would not be a strong official opposition - not that there is now, particularly. Having as many One Nation MPs as possible in the cpp is also important to me (and the country, imo) as I want the party to move back towards the centre over the next five years. As Starmer has done with Labour.

I don't get in brother. In a FFP environment how could your vote not enable the most toxic platforms of that party?

The Conservatives are going to elect their new leader and the first rounds of that are going to be voted for by the Conservative MPs. If the only ones left after the July 4th mass-murder are toxic bigoted fuckers, then they will vote for a toxic bigoted fucker leader, especially if they can point to everyone who was sensible getting voted out as evidence that the "Will of the People" is that they need to go further right to win elections. So therefore keeping a sensible Tory MP in could be seen as a good plan.

I mean, I think they will select a toxic bigoted fucker anyway, simply because the majority of those who kept their seats are the rabid fringe cause they were in safe seats (and because the Party membership get the final call when it's narrowed down to two candidates, and last time they did that, they picked Truss), but I can see Mell's logic there, even if it's not a decision I would make.

Puja

There are more Sunak backers than Truss backers left in the cpp.