Snap General Election called

[Which Tyler]

I've never really agreed with the argument that if you don't vote, then you obviously don't care, and you can't complain.
I don't think I've ever not voted, but I've done a couple of spoiled ballots (write-in for "none of the above").

Feeling disenfranchised and having a vote that makes to difference to anything isn't a good feeling. I completely understand being young, naîve and idealistic, and refusing to give your approval to someone you don't approve of.
If the menu is "thin gruel", "poison" or "crushed glass" deciding to have the gruel is valid - so is deciding not to eat.

I'm older now, I'm more tempered by cynicism, and I'm better versed in UK politics, I'd always have the gruel in that analogy. 30 years ago, I refused to participate in a broken system and give it my tacit approval by doing so (and further, uselessly registered my disapproval of the broken system, in full knowledge that my "protest" was both impotent and silent).

[Son of Mathonwy]

I've never really agreed with the argument that if you don't vote, then you obviously don't care, and you can't complain.
I don't think I've ever not voted, but I've done a couple of spoiled ballots (write-in for "none of the above").

Feeling disenfranchised and having a vote that makes to difference to anything isn't a good feeling. I completely understand being young, naîve and idealistic, and refusing to give your approval to someone you don't approve of.
If the menu is "thin gruel", "poison" or "crushed glass" deciding to have the gruel is valid - so is deciding not to eat.

I'm older now, I'm more tempered by cynicism, and I'm better versed in UK politics, I'd always have the gruel in that analogy. 30 years ago, I refused to participate in a broken system and give it my tacit approval by doing so (and further, uselessly registered my disapproval of the broken system, in full knowledge that my "protest" was both impotent and silent).

I don't feel a strong duty to vote no matter what (although I can see the 'hard-won freedoms' argument). It depends what's on offer. If there is little difference between the options then a non vote or even better a spoiled ballot is a valid choice. However, there was a fair range on offer this time. Even though most votes in our vaguely democratic system are wasted it still makes sense to vote for that small party which reflects your views (as we have seen, fringe parties can become non-fringe) or, in a marginal seat, a tactical vote for a less bad party.

[Son of Mathonwy]

I wonder if Labour will actually give 16-17 year olds the vote. They would end up boosting the Green vote, or (maybe?) even the Farage vote. For Corbyn it was a no-brainer; for Starmer it might not be a clear-cut thing.

[Which Tyler]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/ar ... rch-finds-

Largest UK public sector trial of four-day week sees huge benefits, research finds

Exclusive: South Cambridgeshire experiment led to fewer refuse collectors quitting and faster planning decisions

...

The multi-year study of the trial involving about 450 desk staff plus refuse collectors found:

Staff turnover fell by 39%, helping save £371,500 in a year, mostly on agency staff costs.

Regular household planning applications were decided about a week and a half earlier.

Approximately 15% more major planning application decisions were completed within the correct timescale, compared with before.

The time taken to process changes to housing benefit and council tax benefit claims fell.

On the downside, rent collection for council housing worsened slightly, although this was attributed to the cost of living crisis. The speed with which empty council houses were relet fell slightly, from 28 to 30 days on average. The results were adjusted for the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic.

...

ARTICLE CONTINUES

Of course, telegraph and mail are completely ignoring this, in favour of the failed Asda trial (4x 11-hour days resulting in burnout; therefore a 4-day week is ideological claptrap that doesn't stand up to scrutiny (if you deliberately sabotage the trial))

[Which Tyler]

I don't feel a strong duty to vote no matter what (although I can see the 'hard-won freedoms' argument). It depends what's on offer. If there is little difference between the options then a non vote or even better a spoiled ballot is a valid choice. However, there was a fair range on offer this time. Even though most votes in our vaguely democratic system are wasted it still makes sense to vote for that small party which reflects your views (as we have seen, fringe parties can become non-fringe) or, in a marginal seat, a tactical vote for a less bad party.

This time, yes, there's a huge difference between the 2 main parties, and notable differences between the smaller ones. But it's not always the case. It's also not always the case that there ARE minor parties standing in your constituency.

I'll just an example from my life.
1997, the Blair landslide.
Idealistic young me didn't want to vote labour, because it felt like a cult of personality, and young-me didn't particularly mind John Major (especially after the horrors of Thatcher) but dislike the tories, whilst LibDems were how my parents voted, and therefore to be rebelled against.
Where I lived, my voting options were Labour, Conservative, LibDem, UKIP or Referendum (UKIP on steroids).
I wasn't going to endorse any of the 3 parties, and I most certainly wasn't going to vote for one of the minor parties available to me.
In the 1997 labour landslide, where I lived, the conservative got double the votes of the LibDem, who in turn got double the votes of labour, who in turn got double the votes of the 2 wierdos. My vote wasn't going to change anything, and it was tough for young-me to pick between 3 varieties of thin gruel.

Idealistic me wasn't prepared to give any of them his vote. Old me absolutely defends the right of young-me to complain about the result of that election, despite having registered a spoiled ballot (and despite being pleased that Blair inevitably won).

[Puja]

On the politics of today, I am really impressed by Starmer bringing James Timpson in as prisons minister. Timpsons' has always walked the walk on employing ex-offenders and has a history of campaigning for rehabilitation rather than institutionalisation. How much he'll be able to get done, I don't know, but it's nice to have a minister selected who has practical knowledge and expertise, as well as a very laudable starting position of "mass criminalisation is failing the country and its citizens" rather than "we need to build more prisons to lock up all these scumbags" that we've become used to.

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

On the politics of today, I am really impressed by Starmer bringing James Timpson in as prisons minister. Timpsons' has always walked the walk on employing ex-offenders and has a history of campaigning for rehabilitation rather than institutionalisation. How much he'll be able to get done, I don't know, but it's nice to have a minister selected who has practical knowledge and expertise, as well as a very laudable starting position of "mass criminalisation is failing the country and its citizens" rather than "we need to build more prisons to lock up all these scumbags" that we've become used to.

Puja

Yeah, I'd never heard of him before but someone who believes in rehabilitation is a welcome change.

[Stom]

To be honest, the entire day has been a real breath of fresh air. Everyone singing from the same sheet, everyone talking the talk, the whole thing seems really thought through.

Yes, that should be the bare minimum, but the past years have been so poor…

[Puja]

On the politics of today, I am really impressed by Starmer bringing James Timpson in as prisons minister. Timpsons' has always walked the walk on employing ex-offenders and has a history of campaigning for rehabilitation rather than institutionalisation. How much he'll be able to get done, I don't know, but it's nice to have a minister selected who has practical knowledge and expertise, as well as a very laudable starting position of "mass criminalisation is failing the country and its citizens" rather than "we need to build more prisons to lock up all these scumbags" that we've become used to.

Puja

Yeah, I'd never heard of him before but someone who believes in rehabilitation is a welcome change.

Timpsons have always been incredible - they offer a free dry-cleaning service to anyone who's unemployed/homeless and needs a clean outfit for a job interview, as well as funding 48 hour suit hire in places, and they make a point to employ ex-offenders and hire from job fayres in prisons, as well as actually look after their staff's mental health, rather than just give lip service to it, they pay the National Living Wage and profit share with employees, they have a ridiculous list of benefits for employees - they've just brilliant. They will always have my business whenever I have something needs doing that they do.

I mean, look at this! https://www.timpson-group.co.uk/working ... /benefits/

Puja

[Son of Mathonwy]

On the politics of today, I am really impressed by Starmer bringing James Timpson in as prisons minister. Timpsons' has always walked the walk on employing ex-offenders and has a history of campaigning for rehabilitation rather than institutionalisation. How much he'll be able to get done, I don't know, but it's nice to have a minister selected who has practical knowledge and expertise, as well as a very laudable starting position of "mass criminalisation is failing the country and its citizens" rather than "we need to build more prisons to lock up all these scumbags" that we've become used to.

Puja

Yeah, I'd never heard of him before but someone who believes in rehabilitation is a welcome change.

Timpsons have always been incredible - they offer a free dry-cleaning service to anyone who's unemployed/homeless and needs a clean outfit for a job interview, as well as funding 48 hour suit hire in places, and they make a point to employ ex-offenders and hire from job fayres in prisons, as well as actually look after their staff's mental health, rather than just give lip service to it, they pay the National Living Wage and profit share with employees, they have a ridiculous list of benefits for employees - they've just brilliant. They will always have my business whenever I have something needs doing that they do.

I mean, look at this! https://www.timpson-group.co.uk/working ... /benefits/

Puja

Heroic!!

[Banquo]

To be honest, the entire day has been a real breath of fresh air. Everyone singing from the same sheet, everyone talking the talk, the whole thing seems really thought through.

Yes, that should be the bare minimum, but the past years have been so poor…

agreed- they do actually seem to have planned extremely well. Cunning to hide their hand in reality.

[Which Tyler]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/09/home-office-flying-of-pride-flag-was-monstrous-thing-says-suella-braverman

I agree with Braverman - in as much as there was something monstrous in the Home Office. I disagree that the monstrous thing was the pride flag.


Wasn't it, like, four days ago, that she apologising for this shite?

[Mikey Brown]

She comes across like a conservative plant to make the rest of them look like less awful people. Really a truly disgusting person.

[Mikey Brown]

David Cameron really can do one as well. What a fucking snake.

[Stom]

David Cameron really can do one as well. What a fucking snake.

What did he do/say?

BTW, I'm using the politics live feed from the Granuaid as a "good news" source. That's inredible. They're just competent. If they keep up like this, wow.

[Mikey Brown]

Oh, mainly just reminded me he existed. Bloody Europeans coming over here and stealing our peerages.

[Sandydragon]

Yeah, I'd never heard of him before but someone who believes in rehabilitation is a welcome change.

Timpsons have always been incredible - they offer a free dry-cleaning service to anyone who's unemployed/homeless and needs a clean outfit for a job interview, as well as funding 48 hour suit hire in places, and they make a point to employ ex-offenders and hire from job fayres in prisons, as well as actually look after their staff's mental health, rather than just give lip service to it, they pay the National Living Wage and profit share with employees, they have a ridiculous list of benefits for employees - they've just brilliant. They will always have my business whenever I have something needs doing that they do.

I mean, look at this! https://www.timpson-group.co.uk/working ... /benefits/

Puja

Heroic!!

This is genuinely interesting and could be a great move. The bloke knows more about rehabilitation than the vast majority of other prison ministers. He will need a plan and he will have to sell it well to avoid the charge that he is being soft on criminals.

[Puja]

Timpsons have always been incredible - they offer a free dry-cleaning service to anyone who's unemployed/homeless and needs a clean outfit for a job interview, as well as funding 48 hour suit hire in places, and they make a point to employ ex-offenders and hire from job fayres in prisons, as well as actually look after their staff's mental health, rather than just give lip service to it, they pay the National Living Wage and profit share with employees, they have a ridiculous list of benefits for employees - they've just brilliant. They will always have my business whenever I have something needs doing that they do.

I mean, look at this! https://www.timpson-group.co.uk/working ... /benefits/

Puja

Heroic!!

This is genuinely interesting and could be a great move. The bloke knows more about rehabilitation than the vast majority of other prison ministers. He will need a plan and he will have to sell it well to avoid the charge that he is being soft on criminals.

The thing that baffles me is that his dad was also of a similar mindset and set up Timpsons as that kind of business... yet his brother was a Conservative MP. Sort out that family dynamic, if you can.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Heroic!!

This is genuinely interesting and could be a great move. The bloke knows more about rehabilitation than the vast majority of other prison ministers. He will need a plan and he will have to sell it well to avoid the charge that he is being soft on criminals.

The thing that baffles me is that his dad was also of a similar mindset and set up Timpsons as that kind of business... yet his brother was a Conservative MP. Sort out that family dynamic, if you can.

Puja

Realising that not all Conservatives are fascists might help you sort it. Google some of the arch fascist Michel Gove’s ideas and policies whilst he was prisons minister and you’ll get the idea. Even this fascist* was putting forward Timpson’s view to his local MP and local Conservative Party long before it suddenly became fashionable as of yesterday. I know we’re all awful but you can sometimes slip a cigarette paper between all the members on policy/decency/awfulness. Though, that might be because we’re all slimy or because we are soaked in the blood of the working class.

*am I still a facist if I’m no longer a member? What if I tell you I voted Lib Dem in my local Metro Mayor election? Complicated innit.

[Sandydragon]

This is genuinely interesting and could be a great move. The bloke knows more about rehabilitation than the vast majority of other prison ministers. He will need a plan and he will have to sell it well to avoid the charge that he is being soft on criminals.

The thing that baffles me is that his dad was also of a similar mindset and set up Timpsons as that kind of business... yet his brother was a Conservative MP. Sort out that family dynamic, if you can.

Puja

Realising that not all Conservatives are fascists might help you sort it. Google some of the arch fascist Michel Gove’s ideas and policies whilst he was prisons minister and you’ll get the idea. Even this fascist* was putting forward Timpson’s view to his local MP and local Conservative Party long before it suddenly became fashionable as of yesterday. I know we’re all awful but you can sometimes slip a cigarette paper between all the members on policy/decency/awfulness. Though, that might be because we’re all slimy or because we are soaked in the blood of the working class.

*am I still a facist if I’m no longer a member? What if I tell you I voted Lib Dem in my local Metro Mayor election? Complicated innit.

Exactly.

[Stom]

This is genuinely interesting and could be a great move. The bloke knows more about rehabilitation than the vast majority of other prison ministers. He will need a plan and he will have to sell it well to avoid the charge that he is being soft on criminals.

The thing that baffles me is that his dad was also of a similar mindset and set up Timpsons as that kind of business... yet his brother was a Conservative MP. Sort out that family dynamic, if you can.

Puja

Realising that not all Conservatives are fascists might help you sort it. Google some of the arch fascist Michel Gove’s ideas and policies whilst he was prisons minister and you’ll get the idea. Even this fascist* was putting forward Timpson’s view to his local MP and local Conservative Party long before it suddenly became fashionable as of yesterday. I know we’re all awful but you can sometimes slip a cigarette paper between all the members on policy/decency/awfulness. Though, that might be because we’re all slimy or because we are soaked in the blood of the working class.

*am I still a facist if I’m no longer a member? What if I tell you I voted Lib Dem in my local Metro Mayor election? Complicated innit.

Easy to forget that traditional one nation tories exist, and the biggest reason I was blue leaning as a young man.

The politics of the last 20 years have kind of eroded that view, with a succession of worse and worse Tories setting the tone.

[Puja]

This is genuinely interesting and could be a great move. The bloke knows more about rehabilitation than the vast majority of other prison ministers. He will need a plan and he will have to sell it well to avoid the charge that he is being soft on criminals.

The thing that baffles me is that his dad was also of a similar mindset and set up Timpsons as that kind of business... yet his brother was a Conservative MP. Sort out that family dynamic, if you can.

Puja

Realising that not all Conservatives are fascists might help you sort it. Google some of the arch fascist Michel Gove’s ideas and policies whilst he was prisons minister and you’ll get the idea. Even this fascist* was putting forward Timpson’s view to his local MP and local Conservative Party long before it suddenly became fashionable as of yesterday. I know we’re all awful but you can sometimes slip a cigarette paper between all the members on policy/decency/awfulness. Though, that might be because we’re all slimy or because we are soaked in the blood of the working class.

*am I still a facist if I’m no longer a member? What if I tell you I voted Lib Dem in my local Metro Mayor election? Complicated innit.

Holy strawman, Batman. When did I call him (or you, or all Conservatives) fascists? I just found it odd that a family known for being very pro-rehabilitation of ex-convicts would join a party that is generally famous for a more "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" and "people should take responsibility for their own actions" attitude to law and order.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

The thing that baffles me is that his dad was also of a similar mindset and set up Timpsons as that kind of business... yet his brother was a Conservative MP. Sort out that family dynamic, if you can.

Puja

Realising that not all Conservatives are fascists might help you sort it. Google some of the arch fascist Michel Gove’s ideas and policies whilst he was prisons minister and you’ll get the idea. Even this fascist* was putting forward Timpson’s view to his local MP and local Conservative Party long before it suddenly became fashionable as of yesterday. I know we’re all awful but you can sometimes slip a cigarette paper between all the members on policy/decency/awfulness. Though, that might be because we’re all slimy or because we are soaked in the blood of the working class.

*am I still a facist if I’m no longer a member? What if I tell you I voted Lib Dem in my local Metro Mayor election? Complicated innit.

Holy strawman, Batman. When did I call him (or you, or all Conservatives) fascists? I just found it odd that a family known for being very pro-rehabilitation of ex-convicts would join a party that is generally famous for a more "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" and "people should take responsibility for their own actions" attitude to law and order.

Puja

I didn’t say you called him a fascist, I was just using the lingo of our hyperbolic times. I get bored of the all Tories are evil/awful/whatever/how could you possible be a Tory and a nice person rubbish. It’s sooo fucking lazy.
People join political parties all the time without agreeing with every single policy. I’d hazard a guess that everyone who joins a party doesn’t agree with every single policy of that party. So why it’s so hard to wrap your head round the Timpson family’s political dynamics baffles me. Unless, of course, you agree with the trope that you can’t be a Conservative and be a compassionate person.

[Sandydragon]

The thing that baffles me is that his dad was also of a similar mindset and set up Timpsons as that kind of business... yet his brother was a Conservative MP. Sort out that family dynamic, if you can.

Puja

Realising that not all Conservatives are fascists might help you sort it. Google some of the arch fascist Michel Gove’s ideas and policies whilst he was prisons minister and you’ll get the idea. Even this fascist* was putting forward Timpson’s view to his local MP and local Conservative Party long before it suddenly became fashionable as of yesterday. I know we’re all awful but you can sometimes slip a cigarette paper between all the members on policy/decency/awfulness. Though, that might be because we’re all slimy or because we are soaked in the blood of the working class.

*am I still a facist if I’m no longer a member? What if I tell you I voted Lib Dem in my local Metro Mayor election? Complicated innit.

Easy to forget that traditional one nation tories exist, and the biggest reason I was blue leaning as a young man.

The politics of the last 20 years have kind of eroded that view, with a succession of worse and worse Tories setting the tone.

The party has been captured by the right wing. Hopefully it can recover as a centre right party would still represent a lot of people.

[Sandydragon]

The thing that baffles me is that his dad was also of a similar mindset and set up Timpsons as that kind of business... yet his brother was a Conservative MP. Sort out that family dynamic, if you can.

Puja

Realising that not all Conservatives are fascists might help you sort it. Google some of the arch fascist Michel Gove’s ideas and policies whilst he was prisons minister and you’ll get the idea. Even this fascist* was putting forward Timpson’s view to his local MP and local Conservative Party long before it suddenly became fashionable as of yesterday. I know we’re all awful but you can sometimes slip a cigarette paper between all the members on policy/decency/awfulness. Though, that might be because we’re all slimy or because we are soaked in the blood of the working class.

*am I still a facist if I’m no longer a member? What if I tell you I voted Lib Dem in my local Metro Mayor election? Complicated innit.

Holy strawman, Batman. When did I call him (or you, or all Conservatives) fascists? I just found it odd that a family known for being very pro-rehabilitation of ex-convicts would join a party that is generally famous for a more "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" and "people should take responsibility for their own actions" attitude to law and order.

Puja

Taking responsibility for your actions is usually the start to changing behaviour.