America

[Puja]

That was unwatchable, very very sad. Is there still a path for the Dems to switch candidate?

Realistically, only by Biden recognising, or being convinced to recognise, the inevitable and announcing that he won't be continuing with his campaign.

So, no, in other words, barring him having a stroke or something.

Puja

[Puja]

I haven’t heard of that, but I’m not struggling to believe that’s the plan.

Biden standing down, with a similar message to what you’ve said, would obviously have been a sensible move in a rational world. I guess I was questioning it being about ego or a sense of duty or just not having a fucking clue what is going on.

I am very curious though who actually makes these key decisions like rail-roading Bernie and bringing Biden back from the dead. I might become a full-on Hillary Clinton illuminati guy, that seems like a fun interest to have.

I think the issue is that Biden believed he would beat Trump and he didn't want to be a one-term President (having waited "his turn" for the nomination for so long). Presumably he still does believe he'll beat Trump.

Puja

[morepork]

That was unwatchable, very very sad. Is there still a path for the Dems to switch candidate?

Andrew Little did it for Ardern…

Biden needs to eat a massive slice of humble pie and the idiots that put him on the biggest of stages need to STFU. There is still appetite for progression here. If the democrats have any semblance of balls left after that emasculation they will damn the torpedoes and opt for a sea change. I’m thinking some leveling estrogen would be an appropriate response to this toxic masculinity. Go hard or go home.

[morepork]

Take the fight to them, get off the ropes, and if they are to go down, go down swinging. It will mobilize community level advocacy.

[paddy no 11]

Surely some names get shortlisted between here and the next debate

[Mikey Brown]

That was unwatchable, very very sad. Is there still a path for the Dems to switch candidate?

I’m thinking some leveling estrogen would be an appropriate response to this toxic masculinity. Go hard or go home.

Are you saying what I think you're saying?

Pokemon go hard or Pokemon go home?

[Which Tyler]

Have you come across "Project 2025" before? It's a dedicated plan of action for the first year of a Trump administration, written up by a bunch of libertarian/theocratic/fascist government nerds, about how various loopholes, obscure presidential powers, and bureaucratic rules can be leveraged to completely and irrevocably change how America works.

It's terrifying.
Anyone who hasn't already, I highly recommend the John Oliver bit on it (Last week tonight, June 16th)

SkyGo

Via a VPN

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Take the fight to them, get off the ropes, and if they are to go down, go down swinging. It will mobilize community level advocacy.

This. Leave Biden at the top of the ticket and he'll likely take the House and Senate and State legislatures and a load of governors down with him. And I say that as someone who thinks he's still perfectly able to govern and has been an incredible president, but there isn't a cat's chance in hell that he's going to get enough americans to vote for him.

[Sandydragon]

Take the fight to them, get off the ropes, and if they are to go down, go down swinging. It will mobilize community level advocacy.

This. Leave Biden at the top of the ticket and he'll likely take the House and Senate and State legislatures and a load of governors down with him. And I say that as someone who thinks he's still perfectly able to govern and has been an incredible president, but there isn't a cat's chance in hell that he's going to get enough americans to vote for him.

This surely has to motivate the dems. Losing the presidency and allowing the republicans a
Majority in both houses would be a nightmare.

It’s time for some brutal honesty.

[paddy no 11]

The supreme court has basically totally emasculated the SCC and EPA and federal regulatory bodies. Anyone prosecutions now have to go to a jury as I understand it

Crazy stuff

[Son of Mathonwy]

The supreme court has basically totally emasculated the SCC and EPA and federal regulatory bodies. Anyone prosecutions now have to go to a jury as I understand it

Crazy stuff

Crazy business (if I understand it correctly). An unbalanced, politicised (and by its nature, undemocratic) supreme court is terrifying, and this is one of the consequences. The Republicans seek to control the country even when they don't have control of the elected branches of government. And it's probably not the end of that process.

https://www.vox.com/scotus/357900/supre ... power-grab

A shame that Biden didn't (or couldn't) find a way to increase the size of the SC and rebalance it (I know this would lead to the SC swelling in size every time the White House changed hands but it would be better than this right-wing domination).

NB even before this power grab the SC had granted itself significant powers (which it only used to stop Democrat policies, funnily enough):

https://www.vox.com/scotus/23791610/sup ... ch-barrett

[Son of Mathonwy]

Take the fight to them, get off the ropes, and if they are to go down, go down swinging. It will mobilize community level advocacy.

This. Leave Biden at the top of the ticket and he'll likely take the House and Senate and State legislatures and a load of governors down with him. And I say that as someone who thinks he's still perfectly able to govern and has been an incredible president, but there isn't a cat's chance in hell that he's going to get enough americans to vote for him.

This surely has to motivate the dems. Losing the presidency and allowing the republicans a
Majority in both houses would be a nightmare.

It’s time for some brutal honesty.

This is depressing. So he was over-prepared? It didn't look like that. Yet Obama and Bill Clinton back him.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... g-advisers

A big problem is that there's no heir apparent. The VP should be the obvious backup but she's not popular enough.

This is fixed now, everyone has seen it. Biden looks senile. Even if all his performances are a lot better from now on, people will wince whenever he slurs his words, pauses for thought, goes off on a tangent (even on a good day these things still seem to happen).

[paddy no 11]

So immune when operating officially so get everything defined as official and hey presto totally immunity

[Sandydragon]

Does ordering something whilst holding the office of President make it official? Or is it confined to the expected duties of a president, i.e. not organising an insurgency against his own country? Presumably, the lower courts will define that and then it too will be appealed. Except the election will probably stop proceedings forevermore. Until the next time, someone suggests Trump has abused his power.

The ideological split in SCOTUS is obvious 6-3, and the minority view is making it very clear that they aren't happy. I think it's clear that SCOTUS is giving Trump cover and aren't just interpreting the law in an unbiased manner.

Maybe Biden should exercise some official power and eject Trump from the ballot. After all, SCOTUS seems to think that's fine.

[Sandydragon]

This ruling makes it even more clear, or should do, that the Democrats must remove Biden for someone who might actually beat Trump.

[Son of Mathonwy]

The Democrats' lawyers need to work out how much power this gives an unscrupulous President. Because if Trump wins, by God is he going to test his immunity to the limit. I mean can he not just order the military to do whatever he likes? Can he just have anyone he doesn't like sent to Guantanamo?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng- ... ity-ruling
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... y-decision

This is actually frightening. And I don't even live in the states.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Does ordering something whilst holding the office of President make it official? Or is it confined to the expected duties of a president, i.e. not organising an insurgency against his own country? Presumably, the lower courts will define that and then it too will be appealed. Except the election will probably stop proceedings forevermore. Until the next time, someone suggests Trump has abused his power.

The ideological split in SCOTUS is obvious 6-3, and the minority view is making it very clear that they aren't happy. I think it's clear that SCOTUS is giving Trump cover and aren't just interpreting the law in an unbiased manner.

Maybe Biden should exercise some official power and eject Trump from the ballot. After all, SCOTUS seems to think that's fine.

Nah, that's the beauty of the 6-3 bias. This only works for Republican presidents. If Biden tried it they'd find a way to argue that it wasn't official business . . . or whatever . . . after all they're just making up the law now.

It is starting to feel like the dictatorship is almost here.

[Son of Mathonwy]

The Democrats' lawyers need to work out how much power this gives an unscrupulous President. Because if Trump wins, by God is he going to test his immunity to the limit. I mean can he not just order the military to do whatever he likes? Can he just have anyone he doesn't like sent to Guantanamo?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng- ... ity-ruling
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... y-decision

This is actually frightening. And I don't even live in the states.

Thinking about it (and I'm sure Trump is thinking about it) there's now nothing to stop a president from taking direct payment (bribes to anyone else) in order to set policy or make deals, even to start or stop military action. He can (openly if he likes) take Putin's money, or the Saudi's, or Musk's or whoever's. US policy and military action will be on sale.

[Sandydragon]

The Democrats' lawyers need to work out how much power this gives an unscrupulous President. Because if Trump wins, by God is he going to test his immunity to the limit. I mean can he not just order the military to do whatever he likes? Can he just have anyone he doesn't like sent to Guantanamo?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng- ... ity-ruling
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/art ... y-decision

This is actually frightening. And I don't even live in the states.

Thinking about it (and I'm sure Trump is thinking about it) there's now nothing to stop a president from taking direct payment (bribes to anyone else) in order to set policy or make deals, even to start or stop military action. He can (openly if he likes) take Putin's money, or the Saudi's, or Musk's or whoever's. US policy and military action will be on sale.

Yep. The difference between official actions and unofficial actions will be argued over ad nauseam. You could make a case that ANY decision made by a sitting president is official by the simple fact that they hold office at that point. If only Nixon had known that!

I suspect the lower courts will now spend months trying to work out what a President is 'supposed' to do and therefore that will be seen as the official acts. By the time they agree, and inevitably this will get pushed back to SCOTUS for a decision, it will be too late and Trump will probably kill the investigation.

[J Dory]

So would Biden be immune from prosecution if he was to say ... umm ... order the assassination of an American civilian seen as a threat to democracy? I mean, if he did it officially like, on behalf of upholding the constitution, which he has sworn to do as President.

[Sandydragon]

So would Biden be immune from prosecution if he was to say ... umm ... order the assassination of an American civilian seen as a threat to democracy? I mean, if he did it officially like, on behalf of upholding the constitution, which he has sworn to do as President.

The Republicans are leaving themselves open to that. It would be a stupid thing for Biden to so as I suspect it would result in widespread violence. But technically, maybe.

Depends on how the lower courts craft what's official and what isn't.

[Which Tyler]

I think, for anything that reaches the Supreme Court within the next 15 years or so (I don't think they've got anyone likely to croak anytime soon), the answer is "Republican presidents - everything is official, so long as they use White House stationery" "Democrat presidents - proving something to be official will require multiple precedents (including being an action taken by at least 1 previous Republican president)"

[Sandydragon]

I think, for anything that reaches the Supreme Court within the next 15 years or so (I don't think they've got anyone likely to croak anytime soon), the answer is "Republican presidents - everything is official, so long as they use White House stationery" "Democrat presidents - proving something to be official will require multiple precedents (including being an action taken by at least 1 previous Republican president)"

It will all be irrelevant if Trump decides that we can get away with dictatorship. If the Dems implode then I wonder what the chances are of the 2 term limit being overturned?

[Son of Mathonwy]

I think, for anything that reaches the Supreme Court within the next 15 years or so (I don't think they've got anyone likely to croak anytime soon), the answer is "Republican presidents - everything is official, so long as they use White House stationery" "Democrat presidents - proving something to be official will require multiple precedents (including being an action taken by at least 1 previous Republican president)"

It will all be irrelevant if Trump decides that we can get away with dictatorship. If the Dems implode then I wonder what the chances are of the 2 term limit being overturned?

If Trump were to win, it's really just about getting loyalists into important positions, especially the military. Trump is immune from prosecution, and he can pardon anyone who commits crimes on his orders. So he can do anything, provided he has willing henchmen. So he would have 4 years to set up the coup. Obviously the Supreme Court will provide him with legal cover. Actually overturning the two-term limit would require 3/4 of the States to agree (I think), so that might be difficult, but who knows what those legal wizards can come up with? Maybe a new, streamlined MAGA constitution?

Or would it be less trouble, at 82?, to hand power over to a descendant? With the voting rigged, Putin-style, that might prove to be simplest course.

[Sandydragon]

I think, for anything that reaches the Supreme Court within the next 15 years or so (I don't think they've got anyone likely to croak anytime soon), the answer is "Republican presidents - everything is official, so long as they use White House stationery" "Democrat presidents - proving something to be official will require multiple precedents (including being an action taken by at least 1 previous Republican president)"

It will all be irrelevant if Trump decides that we can get away with dictatorship. If the Dems implode then I wonder what the chances are of the 2 term limit being overturned?

If Trump were to win, it's really just about getting loyalists into important positions, especially the military. Trump is immune from prosecution, and he can pardon anyone who commits crimes on his orders. So he can do anything, provided he has willing henchmen. So he would have 4 years to set up the coup. Obviously the Supreme Court will provide him with legal cover. Actually overturning the two-term limit would require 3/4 of the States to agree (I think), so that might be difficult, but who knows what those legal wizards can come up with? Maybe a new, streamlined MAGA constitution?

Or would it be less trouble, at 82?, to hand power over to a descendant? With the voting rigged, Putin-style, that might prove to be simplest course.

Probably this. Someone who will build statues to the Orange Big Man and note launch any pesky investigations.