If Russia invades Ukraine (more)...

[Mellsblue]

[Mellsblue]

A depressing thread:

[Son of Mathonwy]

The Russian professor in this podcast doesn't buy into the Russian public is brainwashed angle. Rather he says Russians are pragmatists and supporting Putin is in their best interest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0c6968n

They are not pragmatists. The Dutch are pragmatists, and Russia is not like that at all. Pragmatists don't cut up Chanel bags to show their patriotism.

They are an unhappy people and they need their strong leader/country to get their happiness via national pride. If they start criticising their government, they won't do so because of their sons dying, or seeing nasty crimes against Ukrainians, but because the West is showing they aren't afraid of them and they are losing. If they start to realise that their country and they themselves are not as powerful as they thought they were.

The easiest way to think about it is to think of the psychology of a bully. The bully craves to be feared. That is the Russian mentality. If you take that away from them, then they are nothing.

caveat: I'm mostly talking about those Russians at home in Russia, this general analysis might not hold true for expats abroad.

I reckon there's a lot of doublethink and just plain not thinking too hard about Ukraine in the Russian populace right now. If they took too clear a look at it they'd have to admit they're complicit with war crimes. But, yeah, no doubt there are some arseholes who simply enjoy being in the bully's gang.

[Galfon]

This guy delivers a pragmatic view - but it's not what they want to hear. The host has definitely had the bolt fitted.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61484222
( u/d: ..as MellsB posted earlier from other source - oops., senior moment maybe but no plans to invade anyone yet..)

[Zhivago]

A reminder of what the Russian army is like
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

[Son of Mathonwy]

A reminder of what the Russian army is like
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

Grim. It's horrific to be on the receiving end of any invasion, but the wrong kind of leadership and culture can make things many times worse, from war crimes to genocide.

I know some Ukrainians - grandparents would tell of the horrors they experienced at the hands of the Russians in WW2.

[Sandydragon]

A reminder of what the Russian army is like
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

Grim. It's horrific to be on the receiving end of any invasion, but the wrong kind of leadership and culture can make things many times worse, from war crimes to genocide.

I know some Ukrainians - grandparents would tell of the horrors they experienced at the hands of the Russians in WW2.

Theres a good reason why the ex Soviet states have generally wanted closer ties with the west rather than Russia!

[Mellsblue]

[Puja]

He absolutely does not look as though there have been any threats made against his family at all.

Puja

[Galfon]

Go Dmitry..
needs some friends in Mosc. to keep it going.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61515365

[Zhivago]

A reminder of what the Russian army is like
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm ... story.html

Grim. It's horrific to be on the receiving end of any invasion, but the wrong kind of leadership and culture can make things many times worse, from war crimes to genocide.

I know some Ukrainians - grandparents would tell of the horrors they experienced at the hands of the Russians in WW2.

Sometimes pictures speak a thousand words. For those who can stomach it, some examples of Russian barbarism. Anyone who is not desenitized to horrific images should not click the links.

https://preview.redd.it/5o0mzufhhh091.j ... f51a7faadc
https://preview.redd.it/lefq7wl0jh091.j ... 34fff5fd0c

[Zhivago]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/worl ... tions.html

[Galfon]

Looks touch and go if VP health will last out untl the Russ. slow advances in Donbas stalls in a few weeks and possibly re-armed Ukr goes on a broader counter-offensive. The US howitzers could make a big difference if able to reach the right areas.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 83343.html
(Russ. are apparently so crafty we now have
'Kremlin shops' blockading Ukranian ports.. )

Lidl by Lidl...

[Zhivago]

https://justpaste.it/2d3xy
https://justpaste.it/7l2r1

[Galfon]

'Why stop at Donbas ?' he must feel.

[Sandydragon]

'Why stop at Donbas ?' he must feel.

Although on the other hand he is desperate for something he can portray as a victory. He could even paint the initial push toward Kiev as part of the master plan to weaken Ukrainian forces in the east. Much depends on how mentally sound he is at the moment given his likely health issues and effects of treatment.

[Galfon]

Wtf is Macron playing at?!?! Saying that Ukraine must give up territory to avoid humiliating Putin, and that EU membership will take years (it will but there’s no need to so blatantly announce it). Has he spent so long ‘negotiating’ whether Putin that he’s developed Stockholm Syndrome!?!

He seems to firmly believe that resolution can be achieved through diplomacy. with concessions, (jaw-jaw not war-war, of course) but still has others to convince though:

Mr Macr: ' crucial President Vladimir Putin had a way out of what he called a "fundamental error"

Dmytro Kuleba ( Ukr foreign min.):
'allies should "better focus on how to put Russia in its place" as it "humiliates itself".
and that "calls to avoid humiliation of Russia can only humiliate France and every other country that would call for it"..

Bo-Jo:  'peace talks over Ukraine are likely to fail, as dealing with Putin was like "a crocodile when it's got your leg in its jaws" '
'..vital that the West continues arming Ukraine.'

[Mellsblue]

Two good points in this article, https://www.ft.com/content/769ff234-ea5 ... 66693effe2:
a) The German govt are spineless
b) NATO needs a change of plan

[Zhivago]

[Son of Mathonwy]

Big country, Ukraine.

[Sandydragon]

Two good points in this article, https://www.ft.com/content/769ff234-ea5 ... 66693effe2:
a) The German govt are spineless
b) NATO needs a change of plan

I don't subscribe to the FT so can't read, but I get the general idea from the headline. Germany has been pathetic regarding Russia for years, and that's before you consider Schroeder. Sadly the level of support for continuing the conflict in many western European countries isn't high.

[Mellsblue]

Two good points in this article, https://www.ft.com/content/769ff234-ea5 ... 66693effe2:
a) The German govt are spineless
b) NATO needs a change of plan

I don't subscribe to the FT so can't read, but I get the general idea from the headline. Germany has been pathetic regarding Russia for years, and that's before you consider Schroeder. Sadly the level of support for continuing the conflict in many western European countries isn't high.

Neither do I but must’ve got my free one for the week/month as I’ve just gone back to cut and paste and it won’t let me.

[Puja]

Two good points in this article, https://www.ft.com/content/769ff234-ea5 ... 66693effe2:
a) The German govt are spineless
b) NATO needs a change of plan

I don't subscribe to the FT so can't read, but I get the general idea from the headline. Germany has been pathetic regarding Russia for years, and that's before you consider Schroeder. Sadly the level of support for continuing the conflict in many western European countries isn't high.

Neither do I but must’ve got my free one for the week/month as I’ve just gone back to cut and paste and it won’t let me.

12ft ladder is your friend: https://12ft.io/https://www.ft.com/cont ... 66693effe2

Puja

[Zhivago]

NSFW - WARNING DISTRESSING IMAGE

Just inhuman conditions in Mariupol. What a picture of Russian 'Civilization'.
https://preview.redd.it/cb64a53z7t591.j ... a756b7a514

[Mellsblue]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... llies-aid/

A sobering read based on the words (which are backed up by action) of a very impressive leader.