On the second rows, are there stats out there on things like rucks hit. The pair we have picked seem so undynamic compared to some of the locks out there at the moment, but conceivably they are doing a lot of the donkey work. Or maybe Skinner is a dunce and was the one getting our lineout moves confused
Incidentally, Jonny Gray seems to be a counter example to the argument trotted out every time a Scotland player moves abroad. He may have picked up some extra skills at Exeter but to me, he is no more dynamic and has just become more injury prone while losing some of his energy. He used to be so noticeable for his workrate, now he is just a standard second row.
stevedog1980 wrote:
Back row feels cobbled together and akin to the football problem of having Robertson and Tierney available at the same time. I'd rather see Watson on the bench and Skinner or Bradbury starting at 6.
Hasn't the football team solved.that by playing Tierney slightly out of position?
I like a backrow with two open sides but admit that's as much to do with thinking it's fun to watch as it's effective. I do think it can work though. My main gripe is I think it can vary in effectiveness so much depending on whether the ref allows you to compete at the ruck.
Cameo wrote:On the second rows, are there stats out there on things like rucks hit. The pair we have picked seem so undynamic compared to some of the locks out there at the moment, but conceivably they are doing a lot of the donkey work. Or maybe Skinner is a dunce and was the one getting our lineout moves confused
Incidentally, Jonny Gray seems to be a counter example to the argument trotted out every time a Scotland player moves abroad. He may have picked up some extra skills at Exeter but to me, he is no more dynamic and has just become more injury prone while losing some of his energy. He used to be so noticeable for his workrate, now he is just a standard second row.
ruck stats would be good. Both Gray and Gilchrist hit rucks, but not always effectively, especially Gilchrist. Might be unfair to attack Gray's workrate as you have as his role with Exeter may be different from it was at Glasgow. He was a great carrier for a lock in his early couple of seasons at Glasgow, then fell away. Seeemed to have got it back at Exeter, maybe recent injuries have taken an edge off again.
Biggets problems with boith are thye are not big ball carriers, and while they both tackle loads and miss very few, neither make many dominant tackles. Soak tackles allow quick ball if the first up player doesn't get a clear jackal. And both will be under serious lineout pressure as Ireland will have 4 top jumpers to our 2
stevedog1980 wrote:
Back row feels cobbled together and akin to the football problem of having Robertson and Tierney available at the same time. I'd rather see Watson on the bench and Skinner or Bradbury starting at 6.
Hasn't the football team solved.that by playing Tierney slightly out of position?
I like a backrow with two open sides but admit that's as much to do with thinking it's fun to watch as it's effective. I do think it can work though. My main gripe is I think it can vary in effectiveness so much depending on whether the ref allows you to compete at the ruck.
it can work if both are exceptional, one of them is a bruiser of a ball carrier, and the 8 is a big tall jumper. We only meet one of those criteria
stevedog1980 wrote:
Back row feels cobbled together and akin to the football problem of having Robertson and Tierney available at the same time. I'd rather see Watson on the bench and Skinner or Bradbury starting at 6.
Hasn't the football team solved.that by playing Tierney slightly out of position?
I like a backrow with two open sides but admit that's as much to do with thinking it's fun to watch as it's effective. I do think it can work though. My main gripe is I think it can vary in effectiveness so much depending on whether the ref allows you to compete at the ruck.
Not sure they’ve solved it but that is certainly what they’ve done!
Darge and Watson are both grafters and we’ll get a phenomenal shift out of them but I’m not sure of the effectiveness. Primarily because we aren’t making enough opportunities for them to be effective at the ruck. Our tackling rates have been fine and any time there’s a sniff of a turnover Darge is all over it. I think it can work when it’s behind a dominant pack that are creating more chances for turnover ball but I don’t think we are. I’m more than happy to be proven wrong but our tackling has been effective but passive, as mentioned by others there are a lack of dominant tackles from our team in general. France and Ireland are both very effective at creating turnover opportunities, look at how often Marchand is in the right place. It’s not luck, he knows how his teammates are going to control the contact and he positions himself in fantastic support positions.
I’ll say one thing for this team selection, I wasn’t too bothered about watching the game but now I’m keen to see how this turns out
So 6 players including 5 important backs broke team protocol.
That's alot of important players to go rogue including Johnson and Graham who have never really been known as "troublemakers".
I'm not rushing to hammer the players on this one tbh. Look at the players involved; first choice 9, 10 (usually), 12 (probably), wing and 15. Plus a newbie. Were they out getting blootered? Out trying to clear the air away from the team hotel? Etc.
Sure it is ill advised but there is always nuances to these stories. Time will tell what they are.
Ireland have made 30 line breaks in the Guinness Six Nations this year, more than any other team, while Scotland have made the second most (24); they are also the two top ranking teams for defenders beaten (Scotland 107, Ireland 84).
Does anyone know what Hastings has done to be left out so completely?
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It was so much easier to blame Them. It was bleakly depressing to think They were Us. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Cameo wrote:Apparently Hogg, Price etc came back to the hotel when asked. Russell did not.
Hopefully not just spreading nonsense but it would explain selection.
From what I've read it wasn't explicitly said they couldn't go out. The team manager said "bad idea lads" (paraphrasing), some stayed, the 6 went, Toony went ballistic but Finn stayed out.
Russell obviously has issues that need sorted away from rugby, but the lack of discipline amongst the guys that went out after the team manager suggested it was a bad idea is telling.
A lack of discipline throughout the group either on pitch or off it.
Cameo wrote:Apparently Hogg, Price etc came back to the hotel when asked. Russell did not.
Hopefully not just spreading nonsense but it would explain selection.
From what I've read it wasn't explicitly said they couldn't go out. The team manager said "bad idea lads" (paraphrasing), some stayed, the 6 went, Toony went ballistic but Finn stayed out.
Russell obviously has issues that need sorted away from rugby, but the lack of discipline amongst the guys that went out after the team manager suggested it was a bad idea is telling.
A lack of discipline throughout the group either on pitch or off it.
Interesting - quite a lot of sympathy for the others other than Russell then. If there is no clear rules and the captain thinks it is okay to let your hair down a little, then you'd think you'd be safe.
Russell seems a bit fed up. Not been terrible on the pitch but mixed and not getting to play the way I suspect he would want to.
Not returning when told suggests he doesn't really respect the management. I think someone like him can suck it up and deal with it when things are otherwise going well, but if he's not enjoying his rugby I think he gets a bit of a screw you attitude.
Scottish rugby could really do with a feel good win on the weekend and a good news tour in the summer. We are not terrible at the moment but are stuck performing just below expectations. I had a lot more fun in the early Townsend years when we were the best team to watch in the tournament but were winning slightly less.
Cameo wrote:Apparently Hogg, Price etc came back to the hotel when asked. Russell did not.
Hopefully not just spreading nonsense but it would explain selection.
From what I've read it wasn't explicitly said they couldn't go out. The team manager said "bad idea lads" (paraphrasing), some stayed, the 6 went, Toony went ballistic but Finn stayed out.
Russell obviously has issues that need sorted away from rugby, but the lack of discipline amongst the guys that went out after the team manager suggested it was a bad idea is telling.
A lack of discipline throughout the group either on pitch or off it.
Interesting - quite a lot of sympathy for the others other than Russell then. If there is no clear rules and the captain thinks it is okay to let your hair down a little, then you'd think you'd be safe.
Russell seems a bit fed up. Not been terrible on the pitch but mixed and not getting to play the way I suspect he would want to.
Not returning when told suggests he doesn't really respect the management. I think someone like him can suck it up and deal with it when things are otherwise going well, but if he's not enjoying his rugby I think he gets a bit of a screw you attitude.
Scottish rugby could really do with a feel good win on the weekend and a good news tour in the summer. We are not terrible at the moment but are stuck performing just below expectations. I had a lot more fun in the early Townsend years when we were the best team to watch in the tournament but were winning slightly less.
I have no sympathy for the others, if all that is true. The team manager suggested it was a bad idea and they did it anyway. I'm not for one minute suggesting no beers. From accounts , they had a few on the way back from Rome to celebrate Price reaching 50 caps but to go on to head into town when advised not to, and other teammates staying back mirrors the lack of discipline and poor decision making we see on the pitch.
Cameo wrote:Apparently Hogg, Price etc came back to the hotel when asked. Russell did not.
Hopefully not just spreading nonsense but it would explain selection.
From what I've read it wasn't explicitly said they couldn't go out. The team manager said "bad idea lads" (paraphrasing), some stayed, the 6 went, Toony went ballistic but Finn stayed out.
Russell obviously has issues that need sorted away from rugby, but the lack of discipline amongst the guys that went out after the team manager suggested it was a bad idea is telling.
A lack of discipline throughout the group either on pitch or off it.
Finn Russell can be a great player (and obviously a bit of a maverick) who delivers moments of brilliance mixed with silly brain farts, often in the same game. At 29, he lacks maturity and a steadiness to his game, but I suppose that makes him the exciting player he is. It is a pity about the off-field japes. A bit like the massively talented James O'Connor who was a teenage star for Oz, ran off the rails in mid career, lost several good years, but is now playing the rugby of his life as a focused, creative, play making 10 for the reds at the age of 30+. Could have been one of Australia's all time greats with just a tad better attitude and applicaion. Take note Finn - it's not too late, but a bit close.
Another theory on our former first choice fly-half. Perhaps he’s an individual caught up in a team sport at which he’s talented enough to make a living, and after initial enthusiasm for the game, has fallen out of love with it as his “professional” life has taken off. Maybe he’s one of those players who just sees it all as a means to an end - the plan is to milk it for all it’s worth, invest wisely now then put his feet up until he dies. More effort at this stage of his career won’t necessarily mean more money.
If so, he’s nearing his end game now and if his employer tells him to come back in, he’ll make his own mind up, thank you. It’s only worth a few grand to play for Scotland - sure, losing that will have made it an expensive burger and double chips, but so what? He won’t be dropped and if he is, again so what? Back to Paris and watch the SRU fold when he comes back to Glasgow for a couple of seasons on the treatment table. It’s only the entertainment industry after all - his employer almost literally gets its pound of flesh from him and any money lost will be recouped from the publicity this chapter generates for the autobiography.
Just a theory. He also might just have fancied another pint.
Let's also not go overboard about him chucking away his career or aspiring to be James O'Connor. FR has had one good game, two fairly poor ones and one okay one this 6N. Generally he has been first choice ten for tonks and has a test xsp for the Lions where he almost turned around the series. James O'Connor has flitted around for most of his career and his golden summer consists of a few good games for the reds against fairly weak Australian opposition. Don't get me wrong, I would love FR to knuckle down again and peak but he has been a serious bright spot for Scottish rugby over the last 8 years.
I am more worried about a bit of a general malaise/feeling like people aren't happy. FR is a symptom (and maybe part of the cause) of that, but he was also a spark for us finally playing with a smile on our faces after years of trying to grind out the occasional wet weather win.
Now for a win tomorrow and everything will feel better!
