6N squad - starting team

[septic 9]

BTW a lot of the flak Russell and Hogg are getting is based on shit spewed out by Rob Kearney and Shane Horgan. Horgan has long been a prick, but Kearney is not someone who is in any position to criticise others
Watch him running away from Richie Gray here


For Leinster against Glasgow, in a very similar situation he "managed" to trip up (no one near him) so couldn't get to Gray to tackle him. He was a coward

And on that video, if you don't think Kearney ran away, then just get Chris Harris to watch it

[Mikey Brown]

Mate, you're the one who plaintively asked if anyone could see our attacking structure. And yes, I think he'd get selected no matter what because his skill levels are so high and there's no one else.

Maybe he doesn't just make it up as he goes, but that would suggest the attacking plan is "Finn, just make it up as you go mate" cos not you nor me nor anyone else can see a structure or a pattern. It's not like he's the predictable one and everyone else is running around harum scarum.

The centres can't be set up to do anything without it starting from him. You can't say to your centres "Just run any line you like, no idea if the ball will get to you or not". If they're going to run attacking lines around him they need to know where and when to run.

No wonder he's better at Racing. The amount of time they all spend together training the outside players there know him inside out.

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I wasn't trying to have a dig. I think we're arguing two sides of the same issue. I'm just asking what it is you see him doing that is stopping anybody from offering him serious options in attack?

I feel like the idea you can't run a certain line in attack without knowing whether you'll get the ball or not is weirdly spot-on for this side. Our dummy runners and ability to commit defenders is so unconvincing. No pace, no variation in angles, players jogging at defenders rather than moving them around by running at spaces. When we want to spread it wide and Hogg shoots up from fullback, having Haining, Gilchrist, Tuipulotu and Harris all plodding the same telegraphed out-to-in line just isn't cutting it.

No worries mate, didn't think you were having a dig at all.

Look, I'm not going to keep beating this drum, I'm even boring myself now. Our centres aren't up to much, that's undeniably true, but the role of the 10 is to orchestrate the teams structure, and from where I sit if we haven't got the first clue what the teams structure is supposed to be, it's just not good enough to simply absolve the 10 and blame the centres.

Russell is insanely talented, it's up to him and the coaches to work with the other backs to bring that talent out. If that's not happening, it's at least as much his fault as anyone elses.

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Yeah, fair enough - we could keep going round in circles here. I just want to know if the coaches are looking at this thinking it lines up with what they're trying to do. Either way it's a failure of some sort.

RE Kearney/Horgan - I mean really who cares. I'm not sure if it's specifically because of Russell's approach to the game compared to the typical Irish hyper-serious/dour attitude, but every Irish pundit I'm aware of seems to have an enormous chip on their shoulder about Scotland. I'm not even sure where it comes from because they seem to get a very consistent supply of 6 nations wins out of us.

I was surprised once I did finally see the "outrageous OMFG maverick Russell with sensational display of low work-rate" video that it really wasn't all that terrible. It was very poor, but he was one of about 8 players who contributed to that French try, having seen a potentially fantastic kick just not sit up for him or Graham.

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I've mentioned his indiscipline/laziness it's been more about his focus/precision in kicking and meandering in open play. Again, his body language makes it slightly hard to tell and always plays against him, but a lack of options around him doesn't help.

[Donny osmond]

Well, a more positive view from the land of the long white cloud

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/uncalled ... criticism/

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[Chunks Baws]

Russell and Hogg live rent free in some Irish pundits heads, it's a bit creepy to be honest. Also makes no sense, like Mikey says, it's not like we beat them often.

[Mikey Brown]

Bored out of my mind. Work isn't taking my fancy today.

Even as I'm typing this I have no idea how you account for poor performances in positions of little depth without just taking the piss and rotating needlessly. Turner, Fagerson and Gilchrist in particular all have form for giving away needless, idiotic penalties, but also have their own USPs that make it slightly less simple to ditch/punish them.

Price for instance hasn't looked quite up to his form of the last 18 months but I'm not currently that fussed about investing in White. Though we do need to develop some serious alternatives at halfback at some point.

1. Schoeman
2. McInally - though tempted to say give Ashman another go?
3. Fagerson - I don't know what you really do about his dumb penalties though
4. Cummings
5. Gray - if fit
6. Skinner
7. Darge
8. Bradbury

9. Price
10. Russell
11. VDM
12. Johnson
13. Bennet
14. Graham
15. Hogg

Turner, Kebble, Nel, Gilchrist, Christie, White, Kinghorn (assuming no call up for Hastings)

No idea what to do about the 23 shirt. Harris if the defence doesn't hold up feels like a very conservative choice, as we need to properly look at Bennet again after so long out. Tuipulotu just hasn't excited me that much. I really like Steyn as wing/OC cover, but seems kind of pointless with BK there? Hutchinson to cover the whole midfield?

Or we could just go fucking nuts and play Russell at 12 outside Kinghorn - see if it can give either of them a bit more perspective on that role. Either way that bench looks garbage - particularly after feeling like our bench against Wales might be a real positive point of difference for once.

[Cameo]

I would give Tuipulotu another go with Bennett outside him. I wouldn't have picked him and I don't think he's been amazing but I don't think he's been terrible either. My hope is that Redpath takes over come the summer.

I fear both your locks might be injured.

Does anyone know when M Fagerson is back?

[Mikey Brown]

I had thought Cummings was back fit but went back to Glasgow last week? Gray I don’t know.

I would love to have Fagerson back but not heard anything. Or Watson actually? Anyone know whether he was actually ill or just ‘positive’?

Christie starts for Saracens at 6 this weekend. May well be a spot available particularly if Skinner is needed at lock. When he gave away a penalty on the French 5 metre line was literally the only time I noticed him, but he presumably must have done something to get noticed?

[septic 9]

I had thought Cummings was back fit but went back to Glasgow last week? Gray I don’t know.

I would love to have Fagerson back but not heard anything. Or Watson actually? Anyone know whether he was actually ill or just ‘positive’?

Christie starts for Saracens at 6 this weekend. May well be a spot available particularly if Skinner is needed at lock. When he gave away a penalty on the French 5 metre line was literally the only time I noticed him, but he presumably must have done something to get noticed?

Gray was injured playing for Exeter and the view from both Baxter and Toonie was that unlikely to play again this 6 N.
Cumming sis still listed as injured for this weekends Glasgow game.

Last week, according to ESPN stats, Skinner made same number of carries as Gilchrist (4), but made 18m as opposed to 4m. And made 10 tackles as opposed to 4. Pen count however had 2 against Skinner and one against Gilchrist - there were 3 against Gilchrist IIRC for driving early in the lineout, maybe another.

Need to consider rucks hit as well, effective hits. We need Skinner at lock, no question

[Cameo]

I thought Skinner looked good last week. Most noticeable I have seen him.

[Big D]

It is a low bar, but Skinner has been our best lock even when playing 6 (which was a problem) this 6N.

[Big D]

Duhan sent off today. Leading with forearm I believe.

Kinghorn to wing and two playmakers?

[Big D]

I think that's harsh, it is a mistimed genuine attempt at a hand off. Probably technically a red but a likely 3 week ban for that? We need to bring back "sending off sufficient" as a punishment.

[Cameo]

I think that's harsh, it is a mistimed genuine attempt at a hand off. Probably technically a red but a likely 3 week ban for that? We need to bring back "sending off sufficient" as a punishment.

Agreed, I hate people leading with the forearm - had a few to the throat myself - but here he was trying to handoff but didn't get his a straightened in time.

[septic 9]

I think that's harsh, it is a mistimed genuine attempt at a hand off. Probably technically a red but a likely 3 week ban for that? We need to bring back "sending off sufficient" as a punishment.

Agreed, I hate people leading with the forearm - had a few to the throat myself - but here he was trying to handoff but didn't get his a straightened in time.

agree, I think its similar to the red Russell got against France, probably mistimed fend
Unfortunately there are too many players in pro rugby who do lead with the forearm, some very prominent, so any question and its a red.
He will get the standard 6 wks with 50% reduction IF he accepts it was a red. Only 2 wks off if he doesn't. Might also get the extra wk off for doing an online course. Either way his 6N is over I fear

[Mikey Brown]

2 locks and 2 fly-halves?

I guess Skinner accounts for a lock coming in for Haining.

Perhaps Kinghorn now being looked at as a wing with Duhan out? Shame for McClean in that instance who might have hoped for a run out vs Italy. It seems idiotic that we lose our reserve fly-half if a winger goes down injured.

[switchskier]

Gutted for McLean, was thinking that this could be his chance to put his name back in the frame. It's looking a bit thin otherwise. Is Rowe still in the squad? In a similar vein, is Ashman still in the squad? Not sure he's not our best option already at hooker.

Gray seems back awfully early. Was sure he was previously out for the rest of the 6N. Feel that we can use his workrate atm.

As always, prop is a concern.

[Mikey Brown]

I think Rowe was already out, presumably Steyn comes in to start or on the bench with Kinghorn on the wing?

[Big D]

2 locks and 2 fly-halves?

I guess Skinner accounts for a lock coming in for Haining.

Perhaps Kinghorn now being looked at as a wing with Duhan out? Shame for McClean in that instance who might have hoped for a run out vs Italy. It seems idiotic that we lose our reserve fly-half if a winger goes down injured.

I wouldn't be surprised if they put Kinghorn opposite Ioane. The staff really rate his defence. It would allow for two play makers which in theory should be a good thing.

Gray looked so far off the pace in Cardiff, I hope his recovery has been as successful as it is quick.

I am not sue GT will get too experimental in this one, the summer tour is there for that. They like Kinghorn and Rowe is a little off the boil. Pick Kinghorn and Steyn on bench or vice versa.

Would think the Thompson and Young call ups are of the have a look at them and hold bags variety.

[Cameo]

In a similar vein, is Ashman still in the squad? Not sure he's not our best option already at hooker.

Is this because he has been playing particularly well (I've not watched Sale recently) or because you don't like our front line options. To me, McInally and Turner are well ahead of where Ashman seemed to be in the Autumn.

I'd be happy with Steyn or Kinghorn on the wing for the weekend.

Back row selection is the really interesting one to me. I'm hoping Watson is available again. If so I'd pick him and Darge and leave Skinner in the second row. If not, I'm really not sure.

[septic 9]

I wouldn't be surprised if they put Kinghorn opposite Ioane. The staff really rate his defence.

well now that you've said that, it gives me the shits. Kinghorn is not a good defender and pound for pound Ioane is one of the hardest players to bring down anywhere

[septic 9]

we had the best squad and best depth ever. Anyone who said or thought that needs to remember it. And not repeat it. Fullish squad wasn't too great, and we are always, always picking from a shallow pool

[Big D]

I wouldn't be surprised if they put Kinghorn opposite Ioane. The staff really rate his defence.

well now that you've said that, it gives me the shits. Kinghorn is not a good defender and pound for pound Ioane is one of the hardest players to bring down anywhere

Blame Townsend for that. Just saying he rates Kinghorna defence.

"Defensively too. We know he’s one of our best defenders on the wing given his pace, the size he is and his reads". Said that in the autumn.

Unfortunately Graham's defence has been rotten this 6N too and he is likely lining up opposite Ioane.

[Cameo]

we had the best squad and best depth ever. Anyone who said or thought that needs to remember it. And not repeat it. Fullish squad wasn't too great, and we are always, always picking from a shallow pool

I probably said that and I'd repeat it. We would have been very happy with Blair Kinghorn and Steyn as our first choice wings not that long ago, let alone as options to come in. We have a shallow pool compared to others, but for Scotland it is historically great.

The two areas that are looking a bit shallower than sometimes are 9 (lots of meh options behind Price) and back row (where all three of our starters got injured and we (rightly) still haven't called up people like Gary Graham or Ryan Wilson).

[Big D]

We're still going to have a pretty strong starting XV. There is no excuse to lose at the weekend.

[Mikey Brown]

I can’t say I’ve watched Kinghorns defence too closely when out on the wing but my feeling was he instantly looked more comfortable there in previous appearances than I’d ever seen him in defence at 15.

Being a good or bad defender on the wing seems to be much more about intuition in positioning than tackling skill. I’m not sure he’d ever even played wing for Edinburgh at the point he first did for Scotland?

Is it Townsend or Tandy who made that statement? Was it in reference to him playing a specific position?