Brexit delayed

[Stom]

I still can't see a GNU happening, Corbyn's insistence he lead any such effort will undermine it before it starts. Whether Corbyn is intentionally undermining it in the hope he can see Brexit happen and not get blamed for it I don't know, but without him taking a backwards step I don't see where a GNU would get the votes from, one might fall short anyway if enough pro Brexit Labour rebels didn't get behind a non Corbyn option to lead a GNU even if Corbyn did the decent thing and went out back to shoot himself in the head

If it's a choice between that and No Deal, surely there'd be enough willing to hold their noses and do it. Or, if he fails, any other MP could put themselves up as an alternative option and, while they'd fail without Labour support, not supporting a last chance to prevent No Deal would see it publically become Labour's fault and they can't afford that.

I'm slightly worried that we may ask for an extension and get told to get knotted by the EU, especially if one of Boris's close friends on the more authoritarian side of the continent takes umbrage that he's been ousted. In that situation we could end up with a GNU of dubious support panicking about whether to No Deal or pull Article 50 in the last few days.

Puja

I don't know if they would hold their noses when it comes to Corbyn, it's a big ask too when he's going to be seen as an equal danger. I do think the EU will play ball unless someone like Orban sticks in a veto.

That does leave us some chance to revoke A50, but that could get even messier, and we're already into constitutional peril

Why would the Victator veto? Wouldn't make much political sense for him...

[Son of Mathonwy]

Okay, but how many of those who didn't want curry if actually having to go for a curry would want a hot curry even if they'd rather had a steak or pizza?

And further how many want spicy in addition to hot, and I am drawing a distinction between spicy and hot, how many want seafood or vegetarian, how many want pork only to find owing to ownership of who makes most curries pork isn't an option, how many want a wet or dry curry, or want rice, naan or a roti, who wants a curry swimming with ghee and who wants less oily, or those wanting rice who wants plain Vs flavoured, who wants beer, or if wanting beer do you want a curry house that serves its own beer or to find a bring a bottle place...?

And who in the name of all that's holy wants that weird pot of green yoghurt?

Thanks for bringing your expertise to this debate.

[Digby]

If it's a choice between that and No Deal, surely there'd be enough willing to hold their noses and do it. Or, if he fails, any other MP could put themselves up as an alternative option and, while they'd fail without Labour support, not supporting a last chance to prevent No Deal would see it publically become Labour's fault and they can't afford that.

I'm slightly worried that we may ask for an extension and get told to get knotted by the EU, especially if one of Boris's close friends on the more authoritarian side of the continent takes umbrage that he's been ousted. In that situation we could end up with a GNU of dubious support panicking about whether to No Deal or pull Article 50 in the last few days.

Puja

I don't know if they would hold their noses when it comes to Corbyn, it's a big ask too when he's going to be seen as an equal danger. I do think the EU will play ball unless someone like Orban sticks in a veto.

That does leave us some chance to revoke A50, but that could get even messier, and we're already into constitutional peril

Why would the Victator veto? Wouldn't make much political sense for him...

proves he has power, sticks it to the multilateralists, and even who needs logic when you're a nationalistic autocrat anyway

[Banquo]

I would perversely enjoy the spectacle of everyone being backed into a corner by the EU refusing an extension (it would put say the ERG in the position of having to 'like' the EU 'taking control' and the rebel alliance (...I thought 'our NHS' was a bad phrase...) having painted us into a cul de sac) ; I suspect they may come back, you can have one, but only if you have an election/referendum/both......originally, it was a 'compelling event' or some such that was a condition of extension
(or have I made that up)

[Digby]

Okay, but how many of those who didn't want curry if actually having to go for a curry would want a hot curry even if they'd rather had a steak or pizza?

And further how many want spicy in addition to hot, and I am drawing a distinction between spicy and hot, how many want seafood or vegetarian, how many want pork only to find owing to ownership of who makes most curries pork isn't an option, how many want a wet or dry curry, or want rice, naan or a roti, who wants a curry swimming with ghee and who wants less oily, or those wanting rice who wants plain Vs flavoured, who wants beer, or if wanting beer do you want a curry house that serves its own beer or to find a bring a bottle place...?

And who in the name of all that's holy wants that weird pot of green yoghurt?

Thanks for bringing your expertise to this debate.

The less oily bit is something I've actually found useful over the years. Never occurred to me until when living in London and going out for curries with the contractors over from India who often asked for their curry to be cooked less oily, as they felt the traditional British curry house experience far too rich as standard fare.

[Stom]

I don't know if they would hold their noses when it comes to Corbyn, it's a big ask too when he's going to be seen as an equal danger. I do think the EU will play ball unless someone like Orban sticks in a veto.

That does leave us some chance to revoke A50, but that could get even messier, and we're already into constitutional peril

Why would the Victator veto? Wouldn't make much political sense for him...

proves he has power, sticks it to the multilateralists, and even who needs logic when you're a nationalistic autocrat anyway

He uses quite sound logic, generally. And he can't afford a bad situation in the UK considering the number of Hungarians in London.

Plus Fidesz are odds on to suffer big losses in the locals this month.

[Digby]

Why would the Victator veto? Wouldn't make much political sense for him...

proves he has power, sticks it to the multilateralists, and even who needs logic when you're a nationalistic autocrat anyway

He uses quite sound logic, generally. And he can't afford a bad situation in the UK considering the number of Hungarians in London.

Plus Fidesz are odds on to suffer big losses in the locals this month.

It does seem a little odd, more than a little odd, that you'd lament the Tories in the UK whilst simultaneously considering Orban uses quite sound logic.

[Stom]

proves he has power, sticks it to the multilateralists, and even who needs logic when you're a nationalistic autocrat anyway

He uses quite sound logic, generally. And he can't afford a bad situation in the UK considering the number of Hungarians in London.

Plus Fidesz are odds on to suffer big losses in the locals this month.

It does seem a little odd, more than a little odd, that you'd lament the Tories in the UK whilst simultaneously considering Orban uses quite sound logic.

There's a difference between saying someone uses sound logic and agreeing with that logic.

All I meant is that he wouldn't want to alienate so many people that he depends on for this. It's not worth it. There are plenty more fights that, for him, are worth far more.

You also have to understand he doesn't want the Hungarians in the UK to come home, as they will vote against him nearly en masse, and by limiting the voting options for overseas voters not in Transylvania, he currently prevents them from voting.

[Digby]

He's perfectly content to alienate people through corruption, control of the media, control of the courts, establishing friends/allies as oligarchs, raiding the public coffers, berating gays, blaming immigrants, siding with dictators, maybe given the access to EU funding he'd be loathe to upset the EU too much, but he's an odd character in any number of ways, and who knows if Putin makes him some promises

[Son of Mathonwy]

Okay, but how many of those who didn't want curry if actually having to go for a curry would want a hot curry even if they'd rather had a steak or pizza?

And further how many want spicy in addition to hot, and I am drawing a distinction between spicy and hot, how many want seafood or vegetarian, how many want pork only to find owing to ownership of who makes most curries pork isn't an option, how many want a wet or dry curry, or want rice, naan or a roti, who wants a curry swimming with ghee and who wants less oily, or those wanting rice who wants plain Vs flavoured, who wants beer, or if wanting beer do you want a curry house that serves its own beer or to find a bring a bottle place...?

And who in the name of all that's holy wants that weird pot of green yoghurt?

Thanks for bringing your expertise to this debate.

The less oily bit is something I've actually found useful over the years. Never occurred to me until when living in London and going out for curries with the contractors over from India who often asked for their curry to be cooked less oily, as they felt the traditional British curry house experience far too rich as standard fare.

Don't knock the yoghurt thing, it works for me.

Possibly we could use Brexit as a simplifying analogy for the curry house options.

[Digby]

Thanks for bringing your expertise to this debate.

The less oily bit is something I've actually found useful over the years. Never occurred to me until when living in London and going out for curries with the contractors over from India who often asked for their curry to be cooked less oily, as they felt the traditional British curry house experience far too rich as standard fare.

Don't knock the yoghurt thing, it works for me.

Possibly we could use Brexit as a simplifying analogy for the curry house options.

I'm a big fan of yoghurt, whether by itself, in a raita or a salt lassi, but the weird green stuff in curry houses I don't profess to understand, pass the lime pickle please

[Which Tyler]

Stroud MP lists what he now can't do, due to prorogation.
It's so much more than 5 days without PMQs!

[Lizard]

Top Scottish court has ruled prorogation unlawful

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-49661855

[Banquo]

DUP in change of mind shock?!! Boris must have some piccies of a Paisley/Foster tryst.

[Digby]

That and the DUP aren't as influential with Boris having lost his majority anyway, want to prevent the IRA supporting Corbyn coming in and protect their bribe above and beyond the Barnett formula

[Banquo]

That and the DUP aren't as influential with Boris having lost his majority anyway, want to prevent the IRA supporting Corbyn coming in and protect their bribe above and beyond the Barnett formula

Not sure logic and the DUP exist in the same sentence often.

[Digby]

That and the DUP aren't as influential with Boris having lost his majority anyway, want to prevent the IRA supporting Corbyn coming in and protect their bribe above and beyond the Barnett formula

Not sure logic and the DUP exist in the same sentence often.

Sadly all too true

[Banquo]

That and the DUP aren't as influential with Boris having lost his majority anyway, want to prevent the IRA supporting Corbyn coming in and protect their bribe above and beyond the Barnett formula

Not sure logic and the DUP exist in the same sentence often.

Sadly all too true

emblematic of Brexit, I suppose.

[Digby]

Not sure logic and the DUP exist in the same sentence often.

Sadly all too true

emblematic of Brexit, I suppose.

Maybe, In fairness they've been mental for decades. The Tory party doing this to save themselves whilst simultaneously ripping themselves apart is the bigger theme so far. Labour are just insipid. Neither the Lib Dems nor the Brexit Party have done anything yet.

[Which Tyler]

Daily Mail*, so a fistful of salt may be required - but if true; utterly dispicable - and completely in line with the Banon playbook.

Push the law to breaking point, knowing that A] it will take the courts time to rule - potentially allowing the illegal order to stand for "long enough"; and B] make the next outrage seem less outrageous.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... UkpiSPaVOI

"Whitehall and Buckingham Palace are on red alert after being warned that Boris Johnson could attempt to prorogue Parliament for a second time if he is defeated in the courts or tied down further by MPs over Brexit, The Mail on Sunday has learned.

The 'nuclear option' is understood to have been discussed by the Prime Minister's closest advisers in a move that could see the Government, Parliament and the courts plunged into a legal quagmire just days before Britain's planned exit from the European Union on October 31.

Concerned officials believe nothing is off-limits for Downing Street's current 'chaos strategy' to avoid letting MPs pass fresh legislation halting Britain's exit from the EU, even crippling political institutions to let the UK slip out on No Deal terms."

Article continues...

ETA*: Also reported in the Times, the New European, the Telegraph, the Independant and the Sun - so I think we can take this is broadly accurate

[Digby]

Who in the blazes is briefing on that days before the Supreme Court ruling?

[Which Tyler]

Who in the blazes is briefing on that days before the Supreme Court ruling?

Presumably, someone with supreme arrogance?

[Digby]

Who in the blazes is briefing on that days before the Supreme Court ruling?

Presumably, someone with supreme arrogance?

That or someone who doesn't like the process and/or Boris, JRM et al.

If the courts are going to take a view they can't intercede in political matters it does open the question of just how often and/or how long can a PM close parliament for?

[Which Tyler]

After being embarassed by Varadkar at the podium last week - Boris opts not to step up and make a statement this week (Simon McCoy calls it the Incredible Sulk ).

Apparently because of the crowd noise booing him. Crowd are currently utterly silent as PM Bettel speaks.

Bettel looks passionate, pissed off and frustrated after their lunch.

The visuals here tell you all you neet to know about Boris' negotiating tactics with the EU:

[twitchy]

Johnson being clowned by luxembourg is an excellent summary of brexit. Hulk smash.