Brexit delayed

[Mellsblue]

There's not one serious piece of research which doesn't think we'll have less money as a consequence of Brexit. I've more time for a counter argument that we shouldn't be judging success by rising GDP and an entirely different socio-economic model is needed than saying we might get a good deal, that's how far out there I think the positive thinking position taken up by Boris and co is worth.

And no, it's not just UK money coming back into the UK to fund our research. There are any number of foreign inputs into any number of projects, those and all the associated spinoffs are at significant risk. And yes the UK will still play a part, but we'll have a reduced role when it comes to securing funding, it'll be harder with the loss of free movement and so on and so on.

Point being on balance we're not net contributors, we gain hugely, or did. That isn't to say we're not free to turn our backs on that and do something different, we should though be honest about the problems.

There are plenty of scenarios where we don’t lose money compared to the status quo. Note the difference between ‘losing money’ and ‘less money’. The UK are net contributors to the EU budget however you spin it.

I’m once again straying into defending something I don’t believe in, so I’ll leave it there.

There are lots of scenarios wherein we leave with a hard Brexit and never mind a recession the economy continues to grow, but whatever the relative size Vs the status quo is lower and that constricts the available money given we are reliant on a certain level of growth just to maintain given the influence of inflation

Don’t start quoting your fake economics degree syllabus at me. Someone once of this parish debunked your economic education ages ago.

[Puja]

The public at large clearly don’t hate his policies and opinions. The man was is/was the leader of the party that won the last two EU elections. It’s ridiculous to think he’s not mainstream and/or worthy of spots on tv politics programmes.

But he was getting lots of television coverage long before he had any political credibility. He's mainstream now, but a lot of that is because the media put him there.

Puja

Can’t say I agree. His media exposure has correlated with his and his party’s success. Also, what is this ‘credibility’? He has been an elected member of the EU parl for 20 years, albeit with approx 40 days of attendance. Even if you are correct, he is clearly saying things a large section of the population agree with but because you (and I) don’t like it he should be censored? That’s not really what an open, free and democratic society is built upon.

Who's talking about censorship? I'm talking about the massive coverage he and his party has got historically. Obviously now he's a major player, but it's things like him getting invited to the 2015 leadership debate despite having no Parliamentary seats while the Greens were refused, or his continuous appearances on Question Time. There's lots of people who've been members of the EU parliament for 20 years and don't get nearly so much of a puff, mostly because most people in this country don't care about the EU Parliament.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

But he was getting lots of television coverage long before he had any political credibility. He's mainstream now, but a lot of that is because the media put him there.

Puja

Can’t say I agree. His media exposure has correlated with his and his party’s success. Also, what is this ‘credibility’? He has been an elected member of the EU parl for 20 years, albeit with approx 40 days of attendance. Even if you are correct, he is clearly saying things a large section of the population agree with but because you (and I) don’t like it he should be censored? That’s not really what an open, free and democratic society is built upon.

Who's talking about censorship? I'm talking about the massive coverage he and his party has got historically. Obviously now he's a major player, but it's things like him getting invited to the 2015 leadership debate despite having no Parliamentary seats while the Greens were refused, or his continuous appearances on Question Time. There's lots of people who've been members of the EU parliament for 20 years and don't get nearly so much of a puff, mostly because most people in this country don't care about the EU Parliament.

Puja

My apologies, it sounded like you wanted Farage, Robinson etc off your tv because you don’t like what they have to say. I’ve yet to hear anyone on here demand people from the far left be kept off QT. I agree that having him in the leaders debate was a farce. That he is on QT all the time is fine by me. Whether you like it or not he’s been a big player in UK politics for years. There’s also the point that QT isn’t just the preserve of politicians. It allows weirdos like Self, Mason and Liddle on there, too.

[Digby]

There are plenty of scenarios where we don’t lose money compared to the status quo. Note the difference between ‘losing money’ and ‘less money’. The UK are net contributors to the EU budget however you spin it.

I’m once again straying into defending something I don’t believe in, so I’ll leave it there.

There are lots of scenarios wherein we leave with a hard Brexit and never mind a recession the economy continues to grow, but whatever the relative size Vs the status quo is lower and that constricts the available money given we are reliant on a certain level of growth just to maintain given the influence of inflation

Don’t start quoting your fake economics degree syllabus at me. Someone once of this parish debunked your economic education ages ago.

I didn't even know my former tutors posted here, they'd be right though as I'm a very bad economist, not helped by a healthy dose of scepticism on my part for economics given how bad we are at it. Actually I find I'm amused by the idea my former professors would give a rats arse about rugby such they'd post here, one of them did, but he's very much dead now and this others probably thought marbles overly aggressive

[Banquo]

Bojo v Hunt. WTAF.

[Stom]

Bojo v Hunt. WTAF.

BJ vs the former hulture secretary

[Digby]

Boris chickens out of a debate with a wet lettuce. I suppose there is his team had told him all he had to do was nothing, and he's already screwed up in spectacular style, but it doesn't say much for a man who likes to suggest all we need to fix Brexit is a bit of gumption

[Mikey Brown]

Surely all he needs to do though is sit back and watch Hunt repeatedly put his foot in his mouth. This stuff with his girlfriends isn't going to matter.

It's become abundantly clear you can win without actually giving a shit about policy, so why get into a debate and have to deal with specifics?

Or did Boris do something else that I missed?

[Mikey Brown]

Haha. I probably should have waited for that interview before posting that. Anyone hear the whole thing?

[Digby]

Good to see such progress in the last few weeks, Newsnight have Ben Habid on fantasising about the wonderful prospects of no deal (and not just he'll line his own pockets)

[Digby]

Gina Miller looking to advise that any attempt to prorogue Parliament will end up in court, tbh I can't see Boris going this path as it sets a horrible precedent (what if Corbyn formed the next government and wanted to continue in similar vein as a for instance).

At a guess I suspect the courts would decide the PM has the power to prorogue Parliament, but that doing so to force major constitutional change falls outside what's permitted by such allowance, but there is Parliament voted for A50 and have declined any number of attempts to prevent a no deal Brexit, and that has to count for something.

[Digby]

It's not of course just the right who're bonkers when it comes to Brexit, reading this I don't really know if the right reaction is to laugh or vomit

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/07/ ... corbynism/

[Sandydragon]

It's not of course just the right who're bonkers when it comes to Brexit, reading this I don't really know if the right reaction is to laugh or vomit

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/07/ ... corbynism/

So I take it Dr Jones will be voting Tory then?

[Digby]

It's not of course just the right who're bonkers when it comes to Brexit, reading this I don't really know if the right reaction is to laugh or vomit

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/07/ ... corbynism/

So I take it Dr Jones will be voting Tory then?

I would imagine he has a Socialist Party candidate so he can remain true to the vision for greatness. I can only hope he's given his lectures to teach on a Wednesday so all the sensible kids are off playing sport

[Puja]

It's not of course just the right who're bonkers when it comes to Brexit, reading this I don't really know if the right reaction is to laugh or vomit

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/07/ ... corbynism/

Wibble!

I love how he notes that "the only path to a Labour government is through Leave-voting seats" while ignoring the fact that committing to Leave would lose them as many to the Lib Dems as they could possibly gain and still leave them electorally adrift. That fact is just brushed airily away.

Puja

[Sandydragon]

It's not of course just the right who're bonkers when it comes to Brexit, reading this I don't really know if the right reaction is to laugh or vomit

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/07/ ... corbynism/

Wibble!

I love how he notes that "the only path to a Labour government is through Leave-voting seats" while ignoring the fact that committing to Leave would lose them as many to the Lib Dems as they could possibly gain and still leave them electorally adrift. That fact is just brushed airily away.

Puja

Yup. He would basically commit Labour to a 3 way dog fight with the Conservatives and the Brexit Party. Trying to out Brexit Farage is not a great idea for anyone sane.

The other option is to choose remain and take on the Liberals, which to be fair makes more sense in an electoral sense.

That said, if the only way Corbyn can get his socialist vision into reality is to leave the EU, then I'm trying really hard to think of a better reason to remain...

[Sandydragon]

Gina Miller looking to advise that any attempt to prorogue Parliament will end up in court, tbh I can't see Boris going this path as it sets a horrible precedent (what if Corbyn formed the next government and wanted to continue in similar vein as a for instance).

At a guess I suspect the courts would decide the PM has the power to prorogue Parliament, but that doing so to force major constitutional change falls outside what's permitted by such allowance, but there is Parliament voted for A50 and have declined any number of attempts to prevent a no deal Brexit, and that has to count for something.

I think its the Queen who prorogues parliament, when advised to do so by the PM. I doubt Her Maj would be happy at being dragged into that particular constitutional crisis!!

Ultimately, parliament has voted to leave the EU and unless there is a vote overturning the legislation passed then its going to happen, so Boris could just let the clock run down and it becomes Brexit by default, whilst blaming the EU for being intransigent.

The odds on an election in the near future must be shortening given some of the comments in the press recently. I think Boris will really fancy his chances given the current state of Labour. With a tight manifesto that promises jam for all and more personality than May (not entirely difficult) I can see him going for it early before he gets found out.

[Digby]

It's not of course just the right who're bonkers when it comes to Brexit, reading this I don't really know if the right reaction is to laugh or vomit

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/07/ ... corbynism/

Wibble!

I love how he notes that "the only path to a Labour government is through Leave-voting seats" while ignoring the fact that committing to Leave would lose them as many to the Lib Dems as they could possibly gain and still leave them electorally adrift. That fact is just brushed airily away.

Puja

Wibble indeed, the good doctor actually refutes your concern citing an article which states 'Outside of Scotland, hardly any of Labour’s MPs are vulnerable in Remain-voting constituencies.' and if that's not proof you're wrong and not ideologically pure enough in grasping a specific lefty view of the future I don't know what is.

[Puja]

It's not of course just the right who're bonkers when it comes to Brexit, reading this I don't really know if the right reaction is to laugh or vomit

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/07/ ... corbynism/

Wibble!

I love how he notes that "the only path to a Labour government is through Leave-voting seats" while ignoring the fact that committing to Leave would lose them as many to the Lib Dems as they could possibly gain and still leave them electorally adrift. That fact is just brushed airily away.

Puja

Wibble indeed, the good doctor actually refutes your concern citing an article which states 'Outside of Scotland, hardly any of Labour’s MPs are vulnerable in Remain-voting constituencies.' and if that's not proof you're wrong and not ideologically pure enough in grasping a specific lefty view of the future I don't know what is.

I stand corrected and will present myself to the doctor for reeducation.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

With a tight manifesto that promises jam for all and more personality than May (not entirely difficult) I can see him going for it early before he gets found out.

I’m confused. Are you saying the manifesto or Boris will need to have more personality than May? Both are easily achieved but I will need clarification

[Sandydragon]

With a tight manifesto that promises jam for all and more personality than May (not entirely difficult) I can see him going for it early before he gets found out.

I’m confused. Are you saying the manifesto or Boris will need to have more personality than May? Both are easily achieved but I will need clarification

Boris will have more charisma and I don't expect the Torys to make the same mistake on their manifesto again (i.e. stick it to their key vote base).

[Digby]

With a tight manifesto that promises jam for all and more personality than May (not entirely difficult) I can see him going for it early before he gets found out.

I’m confused. Are you saying the manifesto or Boris will need to have more personality than May? Both are easily achieved but I will need clarification

Boris will have more charisma and I don't expect the Torys to make the same mistake on their manifesto again (i.e. stick it to their key vote base).

Promising jam for all is the preserve of idiots, we could end up in a right old pickle.

[Sandydragon]

I’m confused. Are you saying the manifesto or Boris will need to have more personality than May? Both are easily achieved but I will need clarification

Boris will have more charisma and I don't expect the Torys to make the same mistake on their manifesto again (i.e. stick it to their key vote base).

Promising jam for all is the preserve of idiots, we could end up in a right old pickle.

Seems to be working at the moment though.

[Digby]

Boris will have more charisma and I don't expect the Torys to make the same mistake on their manifesto again (i.e. stick it to their key vote base).

Promising jam for all is the preserve of idiots, we could end up in a right old pickle.

Seems to be working at the moment though.

MPs make it harder to shutdown Parliament this autumn, a Downing Street spokesperson says they're disappointed with the number of Tory MPs who voted against the government or abstained, leadership contender Jeremy Hunt meanwhile says he's not quite got the gist of what this voting malarky is all about and he missed a chance to vote with the government owing to confusion on his part, what leadership material he is, or perhaps he's been inspired by all those tales of Sir Boris bravely running away and buggering off whenever a key vote or decision was needed.

[Which Tyler]

Catherine Blaiklock of the Brexit National Party



I'm guessing that "someone" just so happened to be called Steve Bannon, because tours straight out of his playbook of lies.
Please note, not only is the above completely implausible (it's the other way round, NHS will sometimes pay for operations overseas), but Slough General doesn't exist. Also notice, Pakistan is not in the EU