Brexit delayed

[Banquo]

https://www.indy100.com/article/rory-st ... eo-8953271

This just takes the biscuit.

Oh FFS.
Humanity does not deserve to survive

I genuinely fckin despair

[Puja]

https://www.indy100.com/article/rory-st ... eo-8953271

This just takes the biscuit.

Storm meet teacup, teacup meet storm.

True, but it is weird as hell. "Laura Kuennsberg interviews Rory Stewart's penis" was the most apposite quote. I mean, who sits like that? How is it even comfortable?

Hell, I don't even think I'm flexible enough to get my legs to move like that, let alone find it comfortable.

Puja

[Banquo]

Here's hoping Bojo does something ridiculous he cant recover from in the TV debates. Someone put some laxative in his water please.

[Puja]

Here's hoping Bojo does something ridiculous he cant recover from in the TV debates. Someone put some laxative in his water please.

But what even could that be? Basically the only thing I can think of would be for him to pick up his speaking notes from the wrong side of his desk drawer and start arguing passionately for a second referendum.

Puja

[Stom]

Here's hoping Bojo does something ridiculous he cant recover from in the TV debates. Someone put some laxative in his water please.

But what even could that be? Basically the only thing I can think of would be for him to pick up his speaking notes from the wrong side of his desk drawer and start arguing passionately for a second referendum.

Puja

"What kind of question is that, you pleb. Um, Ah, Yes. The point is that we, ah..."

[Banquo]

Here's hoping Bojo does something ridiculous he cant recover from in the TV debates. Someone put some laxative in his water please.

But what even could that be? Basically the only thing I can think of would be for him to pick up his speaking notes from the wrong side of his desk drawer and start arguing passionately for a second referendum.

Puja

he could say the 350 million was made up; he could say no chance of being out by end Oct; he could say something overtly racist. Loads of traps that could see non ERG MPs give him the elbow. The laxatives was also a clue

[Stom]

Here's hoping Bojo does something ridiculous he cant recover from in the TV debates. Someone put some laxative in his water please.

But what even could that be? Basically the only thing I can think of would be for him to pick up his speaking notes from the wrong side of his desk drawer and start arguing passionately for a second referendum.

Puja

he could say the 350 million was made up; he could say no chance of being out by end Oct; he could say something overtly racist. Loads of traps that could see non ERG MPs give him the elbow. The laxatives was also a clue

A different sort of trap...

[Mellsblue]

Anyone able to superimpose Miliband’s bacon sandwich eating head on Stewart’s manspreading body?

[Digby]

Here's hoping Bojo does something ridiculous he cant recover from in the TV debates. Someone put some laxative in his water please.

But what even could that be? Basically the only thing I can think of would be for him to pick up his speaking notes from the wrong side of his desk drawer and start arguing passionately for a second referendum.

Puja

he could say the 350 million was made up; he could say no chance of being out by end Oct; he could say something overtly racist. Loads of traps that could see non ERG MPs give him the elbow. The laxatives was also a clue

Shit has been spewing out of Boris for years, so far it's only making him the favourite

[Banquo]

But what even could that be? Basically the only thing I can think of would be for him to pick up his speaking notes from the wrong side of his desk drawer and start arguing passionately for a second referendum.

Puja

he could say the 350 million was made up; he could say no chance of being out by end Oct; he could say something overtly racist. Loads of traps that could see non ERG MPs give him the elbow. The laxatives was also a clue

Shit has been spewing out of Boris for years, so far it's only making him the favourite

ok. well lets hope he says something sensible which alienates the twonks who support him

[Digby]

he could say the 350 million was made up; he could say no chance of being out by end Oct; he could say something overtly racist. Loads of traps that could see non ERG MPs give him the elbow. The laxatives was also a clue

Shit has been spewing out of Boris for years, so far it's only making him the favourite

ok. well lets hope he says something sensible which alienates the twonks who support him

They're all Thatcher fans one presumes, which is to say not for turning

[Banquo]

Shit has been spewing out of Boris for years, so far it's only making him the favourite

ok. well lets hope he says something sensible which alienates the twonks who support him

They're all Thatcher fans one presumes, which is to say not for turning

they likely thought Thatcher a bit centre ground and too nice to Europe

[Digby]

ok. well lets hope he says something sensible which alienates the twonks who support him

They're all Thatcher fans one presumes, which is to say not for turning

they likely thought Thatcher a bit centre ground and too nice to Europe

Thatcher reminds of many of their current leadership aspirants, saying rude things about Europe in the media and failing to deliver what should have been much more beneficial deals in practice

[Banquo]

They're all Thatcher fans one presumes, which is to say not for turning

they likely thought Thatcher a bit centre ground and too nice to Europe

Thatcher reminds of many of their current leadership aspirants, saying rude things about Europe in the media and failing to deliver what should have been much more beneficial deals in practice

Thatcher got good deals out of the EU iirc

[Puja]

they likely thought Thatcher a bit centre ground and too nice to Europe

Thatcher reminds of many of their current leadership aspirants, saying rude things about Europe in the media and failing to deliver what should have been much more beneficial deals in practice

Thatcher got good deals out of the EU iirc

Yeah, I was going to say myself - at least Thatcher got stuff done. Granted, a lot of it was stuff that we wished she hadn't, but she had a capacity for accomplishment well outside the reach of most of the Tory candidates.

Puja

[Stom]

Thatcher reminds of many of their current leadership aspirants, saying rude things about Europe in the media and failing to deliver what should have been much more beneficial deals in practice

Thatcher got good deals out of the EU iirc

Yeah, I was going to say myself - at least Thatcher got stuff done. Granted, a lot of it was stuff that we wished she hadn't, but she had a capacity for accomplishment well outside the reach of most of the Tory candidates.

Puja

Was back in the UK recently and watched the Thatcher documentary with my dad. Said I admired that she had a plan and an idea of what she wanted and stuck to it...

Which he interpreted as me liking her.

Also, I was trying to explain about thinking about the people you're going to fuck up before you fuck them up and how Thatcher didn't give a rats arse aboug the miners... He thought I was an imbecile, of course, but then Hessletine came on and said the exact same thing.

[Banquo]

Thatcher reminds of many of their current leadership aspirants, saying rude things about Europe in the media and failing to deliver what should have been much more beneficial deals in practice

Thatcher got good deals out of the EU iirc

Yeah, I was going to say myself - at least Thatcher got stuff done. Granted, a lot of it was stuff that we wished she hadn't, but she had a capacity for accomplishment well outside the reach of most of the Tory candidates.

Puja

Fraid so, generally did what it said on the tin, like it or lump it.

[Digby]

Thatcher got good deals out of the EU iirc

Yeah, I was going to say myself - at least Thatcher got stuff done. Granted, a lot of it was stuff that we wished she hadn't, but she had a capacity for accomplishment well outside the reach of most of the Tory candidates.

Puja

Fraid so, generally did what it said on the tin, like it or lump it.

The take on her in the EU, or at least in Germany and France, is she could have gotten better deals but didn't largely because of some daft posturing. Now maybe she did what was on the tin label, but if so that label was a little simplistic and all too often missing the point

[Banquo]

Yeah, I was going to say myself - at least Thatcher got stuff done. Granted, a lot of it was stuff that we wished she hadn't, but she had a capacity for accomplishment well outside the reach of most of the Tory candidates.

Puja

Fraid so, generally did what it said on the tin, like it or lump it.

The take on her in the EU, or at least in Germany and France, is she could have gotten better deals but didn't largely because of some daft posturing. Now maybe she did what was on the tin label, but if so that label was a little simplistic and all too often missing the point

You are so well connected, I'm aghast.

[Digby]

Fraid so, generally did what it said on the tin, like it or lump it.

The take on her in the EU, or at least in Germany and France, is she could have gotten better deals but didn't largely because of some daft posturing. Now maybe she did what was on the tin label, but if so that label was a little simplistic and all too often missing the point

You are so well connected, I'm aghast.

There would be any number of politicians and diplomats across Europe who've gone public with such assessment, that being seen to be strong was more important than being strong

[Banquo]

The take on her in the EU, or at least in Germany and France, is she could have gotten better deals but didn't largely because of some daft posturing. Now maybe she did what was on the tin label, but if so that label was a little simplistic and all too often missing the point

You are so well connected, I'm aghast.

There would be any number of politicians and diplomats across Europe who've gone public with such assessment, that being seen to be strong was more important than being strong

I will have a hunt for such views. Dave obviously missed out too in bringing new unicorns back prior to the referendum; I do seem to remember most pro EU pundits saying we had the best deal of the members, but maybe I misremember.

To be clear, are you saying the rebate battle won was a Pyrrhic victory, and what other deals could she have gotten with a more conciliatory point of view? She was a key contributor to the creation of the single market, if vehemently opposed to political integration.

[Sandydragon]

Yeah, I was going to say myself - at least Thatcher got stuff done. Granted, a lot of it was stuff that we wished she hadn't, but she had a capacity for accomplishment well outside the reach of most of the Tory candidates.

Puja

Fraid so, generally did what it said on the tin, like it or lump it.

The take on her in the EU, or at least in Germany and France, is she could have gotten better deals but didn't largely because of some daft posturing. Now maybe she did what was on the tin label, but if so that label was a little simplistic and all too often missing the point

However, by playing the Iron Lady card to her party, she was able to sell the EU deal.

[Banquo]

Fraid so, generally did what it said on the tin, like it or lump it.

The take on her in the EU, or at least in Germany and France, is she could have gotten better deals but didn't largely because of some daft posturing. Now maybe she did what was on the tin label, but if so that label was a little simplistic and all too often missing the point

However, by playing the Iron Lady card to her party, she was able to sell the EU deal.

One general observation is that those who were around and capable of understanding the situation in the UK in the late 60's through to the late 80's would have a different (that's not to say right) perspective on events and how they played out, and not just related to the EU.

[Digby]

You are so well connected, I'm aghast.

There would be any number of politicians and diplomats across Europe who've gone public with such assessment, that being seen to be strong was more important than being strong

I will have a hunt for such views. Dave obviously missed out too in bringing new unicorns back prior to the referendum; I do seem to remember most pro EU pundits saying we had the best deal of the members, but maybe I misremember.

To be clear, are you saying the rebate battle won was a Pyrrhic victory, and what other deals could she have gotten with a more conciliatory point of view? She was a key contributor to the creation of the single market, if vehemently opposed to political integration.

The rebate isn't nothing, though it took a long time and our contentions during that period drove a lot of the desire for many mandarins in Germany and France to seek close integration to avoid future problems with the UK, and Thatcher certainly didn't want a lot of the closer political ties.

What seems to return over and over is how much effort was put into making Thatcher seem like the winner so she could have better control of the media narrative in the UK. In defence of Thatcher she doesn't control the UK media not much of the public assessment of the EU, and it was and obviously is a tricky sell, and I don't know to what degree she simply had to overcome a lot of misogyny in her dealings with other EU leaders, but one would have to assume she saw value in being strident to overcome a hurdle that shouldn't have been faced.

I'd also note having to have the rebate is a failing, though whether anybody could have harangued the EU into sensible reforms of the CAP I do rather doubt

[Banquo]

There would be any number of politicians and diplomats across Europe who've gone public with such assessment, that being seen to be strong was more important than being strong

I will have a hunt for such views. Dave obviously missed out too in bringing new unicorns back prior to the referendum; I do seem to remember most pro EU pundits saying we had the best deal of the members, but maybe I misremember.

To be clear, are you saying the rebate battle won was a Pyrrhic victory, and what other deals could she have gotten with a more conciliatory point of view? She was a key contributor to the creation of the single market, if vehemently opposed to political integration.

The rebate isn't nothing, though it took a long time and our contentions during that period drove a lot of the desire for many mandarins in Germany and France to seek close integration to avoid future problems with the UK, and Thatcher certainly didn't want a lot of the closer political ties.

What seems to return over and over is how much effort was put into making Thatcher seem like the winner so she could have better control of the media narrative in the UK. In defence of Thatcher she doesn't control the UK media not much of the public assessment of the EU, and it was and obviously is a tricky sell, and I don't know to what degree she simply had to overcome a lot of misogyny in her dealings with other EU leaders, but one would have to assume she saw value in being strident to overcome a hurdle that shouldn't have been faced.

I'd also note having to have the rebate is a failing, though whether anybody could have harangued the EU into sensible reforms of the CAP I do rather doubt

Well quite. Can I ask how old you were in the mid 80's?

And the rebate (s) continue....