Brexit delayed

[Digby]

They really should keep him away from watching old footage of Hitler and Mussolini whilst out canvassing, he's far too excitable. Though yes, it's not acceptable just because it's Nige

[Mellsblue]

Are there polls for voting intentions were this a GE tomorrow?

Nice to know we've cocked up sending out the overseas postal votes by using someone who said they could get the job done cheaper than Royal Mail, this from the same crowd who want to bring in voter ID to scare poor people with the supposed justification of voter fraud.

The logistics are the domain of local councils, ie whoever the returning officer is....I think. I know this has Grayling written all over it but it’s not his fault...I think

[Mellsblue]

Jesus. No policies over and above "dirty foreigners", and they are the most likely to be voted for?

You are fucked.

No mention of immigrants during the BP campaign, at least not from official sources, as far as I’ve read. Not that this is proof of absence of racist drivers. Believe it or not, people can want to leave the EU for reasons other than racism....though I’m certain it’s a decent % behind the BP vote. There are numerous studies showing the UK is one of the European counties least worried about immigration.

[Mellsblue]

We may be...

https://capx.co/british-politics-is-bro ... lot-worse/

This is pretty much spot on.....I think...I was asked to sign up and my mobile phone didn’t have the screen size for me to say no.
Unfortunately, I think there are a few Con politicians who would make capable PMs but are burned by office. If Johnson moves back to his liberal-ish roots (yes, there is politics beyond Brexit) he stands a chance and can be a decent figurehead if they surround him with brains.
Corbyn and his front bench are mostly unelectable.
Ahhh, those glorious days of the rose garden.

[morepork]

Jesus. No policies over and above "dirty foreigners", and they are the most likely to be voted for?

You are fucked.

No mention of immigrants during the BP campaign, at least not from official sources, as far as I’ve read. Not that this is proof of absence of racist drivers. Believe it or not, people can want to leave the EU for reasons other than racism....though I’m certain it’s a decent % behind the BP vote. There are numerous studies showing the UK is one of the European counties least worried about immigration.

FFS man, just give in to it. Look at the social media cut and thrust of support and, yep, xenophobia (politely put) seems front and centre for the BP campaign attraction. It's a phenomenon throughout western countries at the moment.

[Stom]

Are there polls for voting intentions were this a GE tomorrow?

Nice to know we've cocked up sending out the overseas postal votes by using someone who said they could get the job done cheaper than Royal Mail, this from the same crowd who want to bring in voter ID to scare poor people with the supposed justification of voter fraud.

I wonder who would gain the most from overseas voters not having a say...

Just like the GE...or the ref...

[Mellsblue]

Jesus. No policies over and above "dirty foreigners", and they are the most likely to be voted for?

You are fucked.

No mention of immigrants during the BP campaign, at least not from official sources, as far as I’ve read. Not that this is proof of absence of racist drivers. Believe it or not, people can want to leave the EU for reasons other than racism....though I’m certain it’s a decent % behind the BP vote. There are numerous studies showing the UK is one of the European counties least worried about immigration.

FFS man, just give in to it. Look at the social media cut and thrust of support and, yep, xenophobia (politely put) seems front and centre for the BP campaign attraction. It's a phenomenon throughout western countries at the moment.

You’ve clearly not been following the BP campaign very closely. Not entirely surprising given where you live. You should know better than to rely on social media for your ‘facts’. At least you used the word “seems”, I suppose.

[Mellsblue]

Are there polls for voting intentions were this a GE tomorrow?

Nice to know we've cocked up sending out the overseas postal votes by using someone who said they could get the job done cheaper than Royal Mail, this from the same crowd who want to bring in voter ID to scare poor people with the supposed justification of voter fraud.

I wonder who would gain the most from overseas voters not having a say...

Just like the GE...or the ref...

My mother-in-law, who lives in France, hasn’t received her postal vote from her Lib Dem run council.....

[morepork]

No mention of immigrants during the BP campaign, at least not from official sources, as far as I’ve read. Not that this is proof of absence of racist drivers. Believe it or not, people can want to leave the EU for reasons other than racism....though I’m certain it’s a decent % behind the BP vote. There are numerous studies showing the UK is one of the European counties least worried about immigration.

FFS man, just give in to it. Look at the social media cut and thrust of support and, yep, xenophobia (politely put) seems front and centre for the BP campaign attraction. It's a phenomenon throughout western countries at the moment.

You’ve clearly not been following the BP campaign very closely. Not entirely surprising given where you live. You should know better than to rely on social media for your ‘facts’. At least you used the word “seems”, I suppose.

Oh I don't, but the bot farms targeting you poor bastards know that many do.

[twitchy]

[Banquo]

Can kicked down road again- wtf were she/advisors thinking in racing to produce a 'document' and pi55ing everyone off. Its really difficult to see a way out of this given parliaments lack of ideas or commitment to anything, and we are heading to no deal unless there is a GE.

[Which Tyler]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_fb

A nationwide picture is emerging of EU citizens in the UK being denied their democratic right to vote in the European parliament elections because of administrative errors by local councils.
Reports are coming in from across the country of EU nationals turning up at polling booths and finding their names crossed out and being told by officials they are not eligible to vote.
Dozens have contacted the Guardian to say that the forms they had to sign to declare they were choosing to vote in this country had either turned up too late or not turned up at all...



So much for legal, free and fair elections huh

[Digby]

I've long said there's only one real area of voter fraud in this country, namely postal votes, but these days we ought to include those organising the elections as the other major point of fraud

[Which Tyler]

I've long said there's only one real area of voter fraud in this country, namely postal votes, but these days we ought to include those organising the elections as the other major point of fraud

I'd say that between overseas citizens not getting their forms, and domestic EU nationals not getting theirs either; the organisers are engaging in the only electoral fraud - though for this election I'll allow that siomple incompetence seems way more likely than conspiracy (2016 on the other hand...)

Postal voting is the only real option for election fraud, but even that wouldn't work on a large scale without the defrauded knowing about it (they'd basically have to sign the various signed bits of paperwork over to someone without sealing the envelopes). Otherwise I don't think it's any more suseptible than proxy voting - though I'm also pretty sure they could increase the security of postal voting further with reasonable ease

[Which Tyler]

If you know anyone who's been turned away, the electoral commission has released the following:

So kick up Angus's, and demand to speak to the returning officer

[Zhivago]

I've long said there's only one real area of voter fraud in this country, namely postal votes, but these days we ought to include those organising the elections as the other major point of fraud

I'd say that between overseas citizens not getting their forms, and domestic EU nationals not getting theirs either; the organisers are engaging in the only electoral fraud - though for this election I'll allow that siomple incompetence seems way more likely than conspiracy (2016 on the other hand...)

Postal voting is the only real option for election fraud, but even that wouldn't work on a large scale without the defrauded knowing about it (they'd basically have to sign the various signed bits of paperwork over to someone without sealing the envelopes). Otherwise I don't think it's any more suseptible than proxy voting - though I'm also pretty sure they could increase the security of postal voting further with reasonable ease

Can confirm - didn't get the form either. I am more than happy skipping taking part in this pointless election though.

[Mellsblue]

Postal voting is the only real option for election fraud, but even that wouldn't work on a large scale without the defrauded knowing about it (they'd basically have to sign the various signed bits of paperwork over to someone without sealing the envelopes). Otherwise I don't think it's any more suseptible than proxy voting - though I'm also pretty sure they could increase the security of postal voting further with reasonable ease

Have a read about postal vote fraud in Leicester.

[Mellsblue]

To be fair to the responsible councils, they haven’t had as much time as usual to get the logistics in place for this election.

[Mellsblue]

Can kicked down road again- wtf were she/advisors thinking in racing to produce a 'document' and pi55ing everyone off. Its really difficult to see a way out of this given parliaments lack of ideas or commitment to anything, and we are heading to no deal unless there is a GE.

Racing?!?!! This was the fourth iteration over numerous months. If only we had an agreement that was a compromise.....or as you correctly call it a document to piss everyone off. It had something for virtually everyone but instead of everyone excepting it was a compromise to try and please all, they just focussed on what pissed them off. It pretty much handed control to parliament with provisions for a CU and second ref if they wanted. It ticked virtually every box that Labour have asked for - the above plus tying the UK to EU labour and environmental laws - yet surprise surprise party politics trump everything.
What a bunch of to55ers.

[Sandydragon]

I've long said there's only one real area of voter fraud in this country, namely postal votes, but these days we ought to include those organising the elections as the other major point of fraud

I'd say that between overseas citizens not getting their forms, and domestic EU nationals not getting theirs either; the organisers are engaging in the only electoral fraud - though for this election I'll allow that siomple incompetence seems way more likely than conspiracy (2016 on the other hand...)

Postal voting is the only real option for election fraud, but even that wouldn't work on a large scale without the defrauded knowing about it (they'd basically have to sign the various signed bits of paperwork over to someone without sealing the envelopes). Otherwise I don't think it's any more suseptible than proxy voting - though I'm also pretty sure they could increase the security of postal voting further with reasonable ease

Can confirm - didn't get the form either. I am more than happy skipping taking part in this pointless election though.

Other than when I was working overseas, I’ve never not voted before.
I just can’t see the point in this, even registering a vote for a remainder party seems like a waste of time.

[Banquo]

Can kicked down road again- wtf were she/advisors thinking in racing to produce a 'document' and pi55ing everyone off. Its really difficult to see a way out of this given parliaments lack of ideas or commitment to anything, and we are heading to no deal unless there is a GE.

Racing?!?!! This was the fourth iteration over numerous months. If only we had an agreement that was a compromise.....or as you correctly call it a document to piss everyone off. It had something for virtually everyone but instead of everyone excepting it was a compromise to try and please all, they just focussed on what pissed them off. It pretty much handed control to parliament with provisions for a CU and second ref if they wanted. It ticked virtually every box that Labour have asked for - the above plus tying the UK to EU labour and environmental laws - yet surprise surprise party politics trump everything.
What a bunch of to55ers.

She splurged it out without sharing the fine details with the cabinet or anyone else- and it wasn't merely an iteration as you've just highlighted. She could have taken time and hawked it a around, dividing and conquering, but no. Misguided, again.

[Mellsblue]

Can kicked down road again- wtf were she/advisors thinking in racing to produce a 'document' and pi55ing everyone off. Its really difficult to see a way out of this given parliaments lack of ideas or commitment to anything, and we are heading to no deal unless there is a GE.

Racing?!?!! This was the fourth iteration over numerous months. If only we had an agreement that was a compromise.....or as you correctly call it a document to piss everyone off. It had something for virtually everyone but instead of everyone excepting it was a compromise to try and please all, they just focussed on what pissed them off. It pretty much handed control to parliament with provisions for a CU and second ref if they wanted. It ticked virtually every box that Labour have asked for - the above plus tying the UK to EU labour and environmental laws - yet surprise surprise party politics trump everything.
What a bunch of to55ers.

She splurged it out without sharing the fine details with the cabinet or anyone else- and it wasn't merely an iteration as you've just highlighted. She could have taken time and hawked it a around, dividing and conquering, but no. Misguided, again.

Oh, yeah. She’s botched the sales pitch yet again. Though, why should we be worried about a sales pitch? These are our elected officials who run our nation. Geniuses, the lot. It reacts to everything that has been asked for. I’m not running through it again but it gives every faction something they want. MPs should be able to see past a non-existent sales pitch and take it a face value, ie it’s a compromise. Well, it’s more a capitulation but get my point.

[Banquo]

Racing?!?!! This was the fourth iteration over numerous months. If only we had an agreement that was a compromise.....or as you correctly call it a document to piss everyone off. It had something for virtually everyone but instead of everyone excepting it was a compromise to try and please all, they just focussed on what pissed them off. It pretty much handed control to parliament with provisions for a CU and second ref if they wanted. It ticked virtually every box that Labour have asked for - the above plus tying the UK to EU labour and environmental laws - yet surprise surprise party politics trump everything.
What a bunch of to55ers.

She splurged it out without sharing the fine details with the cabinet or anyone else- and it wasn't merely an iteration as you've just highlighted. She could have taken time and hawked it a around, dividing and conquering, but no. Misguided, again.

Oh, yeah. She’s botched the sales pitch yet again. Though, why should we be worried about a sales pitch? These are our elected officials who run our nation. Geniuses, the lot. It reacts to everything that has been asked for. I’m not running through it again but it gives every faction something they want. MPs should be able to see past a non-existent sales pitch and take it a face value, ie it’s a compromise. Well, it’s more a capitulation but get my point.

I get that it gives a load away, and actually in that context makes it a really daft treaty, but she utterly does not learn. Its politics not logic, and steamrollering again is not good politics....you have to at least take loyalists with you ffs. The old WA was a better bet, i do think some ERG might have cracked, along with some leave constituent labourites. Now she has screwed the pooch with at least half the tory mp's.

[Mellsblue]

She splurged it out without sharing the fine details with the cabinet or anyone else- and it wasn't merely an iteration as you've just highlighted. She could have taken time and hawked it a around, dividing and conquering, but no. Misguided, again.

Oh, yeah. She’s botched the sales pitch yet again. Though, why should we be worried about a sales pitch? These are our elected officials who run our nation. Geniuses, the lot. It reacts to everything that has been asked for. I’m not running through it again but it gives every faction something they want. MPs should be able to see past a non-existent sales pitch and take it a face value, ie it’s a compromise. Well, it’s more a capitulation but get my point.

I get that it gives a load away, and actually in that context makes it a really daft treaty, but she utterly does not learn. Its politics not logic, and steamrollering again is not good politics....you have to at least take loyalists with you ffs. The old WA was a better bet, i do think some ERG might have cracked, along with some leave constituent labourites. Now she has screwed the pooch with at least half the tory mp's.

Yep. It’s another f**k up. She was never suited to be leader and only became one because all her leadership rivals shot themselves in the foot one by one. She doesn’t learn from her lessons and her communication skills are dismal - great stories emerging about how she failed to tell anybody that Leadsom called to say she was resigning hence the initial public reaction from no10 that Leadsom’s resignation was a hostile act before having to row back.
BUT, people have been demanding she compromises, that she gives parliament more power. This wab does exactly that and still all sides shoot it down. What the f**k more do they want?
WAB 3 was defeated, she couldn’t bring it back. Not that it had a chance of winning a vote, regardless. It was only a few weeks ago you were telling me that the militant ERG numbers were in the late tens. What could she have done to persuade most of those and a few leaver Labs without losing a few off the Remain end of the ledger?
It’s a f**king mess and I’m starting to think we deserve a no deal Brexit. Luckily we’ve a bunch of clever clogs in parliament who will guide us through the choppy waters.
On the plus side, at least we can put to bed the notion that if only govt had compromised and given parliament greater say it all would’ve been, to stick with the boating theme, plain sailing.

[Puja]

On the plus side, at least we can put to bed the notion that if only govt had compromised and given parliament greater say it all would’ve been, to stick with the boating theme, plain sailing.

Now I get why you've been arguing with me, cause that does sound stupid. However, it's not the point I was trying to make - we should've had all this argument bollocks and tried to find a workable direction that parliament agreed on before going to the EU (preferably before triggering Article 50). Sure, we'd probably still be deadlocked, but at least we'd be deadlocked at the start of the process, rather than the end.

Puja