Brexit delayed

[Stom]

https://17millionsignatures.uk/

Given the petition has now risen to 5.5 million signatures and is currently rising at over 1m per day, this doesn't feel like an outlandish target. The larger it gets, the more likely that the politicians will stop citing "The Will Of The People" and maybe try and find what the will of the people currently is, based on the choices that are actively in front of us.

Puja

It's not rising at 1m a day. It's not been close to that since Friday. It was going up by 1.5m+ until then but today its "only" a couple hundred thousand.

[Which Tyler]

February 20th: 1 vote
6pm Wed: 54,196
6pm Thu: 1,173,511
6pm Fri: 3,504,095
6pm Sat: 4,509,282
6pm Sun: 5,138,755
6pm Mon: 5,555,000 predicted

I would have thought it'll top out somewhere around 7million so around 15% of the electorate

[Stom]

February 20th: 1 vote
6pm Wed: 54,196
6pm Thu: 1,173,511
6pm Fri: 3,504,095
6pm Sat: 4,509,282
6pm Sun: 5,138,755
6pm Mon: 5,555,000 predicted

I would have thought it'll top out somewhere around 7million so around 15% of the electorate

Damn, the UK is ageing like fuck.

But on the petition: I said that it won't make any difference unless it gets to 8 figures this week. That's no longer looking likely. People need to push it on everyone they know, otherwise it will come to nothing.

Especially as Liam Fox (one of the most odious men I've shared a room with) said that the government would likely ignore any indicative votes parliament voted on...

[Which Tyler]

Especially as Liam Fox (one of the most odious men I've shared a room with) said that the government would likely ignore any indicative votes parliament voted on...

That's okay, Theresa has said the same thing, repeatedly, in parliament this afternoon.
She's also said that IF a second referendum happens, she'll only honour the result if it's a majority for her WA.

[Digby]

This taking back control for parliament is working a treat if by that they meant a dictatorial executive. Luckily Labour's very own Dear Leader wouldn’t abuse dictatorial powers if such precedent is now set, so the Tories can be comforted they'll have no cause for complaint in the future

[canta_brian]

Especially as Liam Fox (one of the most odious men I've shared a room with) said that the government would likely ignore any indicative votes parliament voted on...

That's okay, Theresa has said the same thing, repeatedly, in parliament this afternoon.
She's also said that IF a second referendum happens, she'll only honour the result if it's a majority for her WA.

Fuck my old boots she has no shame.

Does anyone actually think there is a compromise, middle ground deal that is worth anything. It seems to me that any deal that has us leave, but not achieve the sunny uplands of a hard brexit is basically a bit worse than staying in. The government’s position seems to be to minimise the damage of leaving with the threat of properly leaving as her alternative.

[Banquo]

February 20th: 1 vote
6pm Wed: 54,196
6pm Thu: 1,173,511
6pm Fri: 3,504,095
6pm Sat: 4,509,282
6pm Sun: 5,138,755
6pm Mon: 5,555,000 predicted

I would have thought it'll top out somewhere around 7million so around 15% of the electorate

Damn, the UK is ageing like fuck.

But on the petition: I said that it won't make any difference unless it gets to 8 figures this week. That's no longer looking likely. People need to push it on everyone they know, otherwise it will come to nothing.

Especially as Liam Fox (one of the most odious men I've shared a room with) said that the government would likely ignore any indicative votes parliament voted on...

Electorate is about 47m.

[Banquo]

Especially as Liam Fox (one of the most odious men I've shared a room with) said that the government would likely ignore any indicative votes parliament voted on...

That's okay, Theresa has said the same thing, repeatedly, in parliament this afternoon.
She's also said that IF a second referendum happens, she'll only honour the result if it's a majority for her WA.

Fuck my old boots she has no shame.

Does anyone actually think there is a compromise, middle ground deal that is worth anything. It seems to me that any deal that has us leave, but not achieve the sunny uplands of a hard brexit is basically a bit worse than staying in. The government’s position seems to be to minimise the damage of leaving with the threat of properly leaving as her alternative.

No. Norway plus and EU 2.0 are worse than staying and their proponents need to say so. The WA in theory offers the opportunity to negotiate something different than BRINO minus, in practice no-one believes it likely that it will be a good outcome. Their strategy is exactly what you say.

[Which Tyler]

She also seems a little confused that anyone would want a second referendum for purposes other than rubber stamping her WA.
Just doesn't understand why anyone would want any other options on the ballot.

[Which Tyler]

No. Norway plus and EU 2.0 are worse than staying and their proponents need to say so. The WA in theory offers the opportunity to negotiate something different than BRINO minus, in practice no-one believes it likely that it will be a good outcome. Their strategy is exactly what you say.

Personally I'm hugely in favour of Germany+; though granted, it's not really a compromise position.

[Which Tyler]

6pm Mon: 5,555,000 predicted

5,555,183
Not bad

[Stom]

On a sunny note, was planning a holiday to the UK...rather complicated...

Will we be able to use ID cards? Will I be stopped on the way back and get my passport stamped? What about the kids? They don't have UK passports, as I never saw the need - we've not been outside Europe with them yet, so ID cards are just easier.

UK government website says: "Nah, you'll be right. Nothing'll change". EU says: border checks, stamps in passports, visas, restrictions on goods, checking of luggage...and more"

Basically, fuck you, UK government.

[Stom]

And by the way, this is what OUR government was talking about at cabinet, with regards to a decision that will have gross implications for the future of the UK.

“committed to delivering Brexit — not to do so would be damaging to the Conservative party”

Who gives a toss what it does to the country, just so long as my political party survives.

Where's Lizzie when you need her, breaking protocol to destroy the crown in exchange for us not destroying ourselves.

[Which Tyler]

On a sunny note, was planning a holiday to the UK...rather complicated...

Will we be able to use ID cards? Will I be stopped on the way back and get my passport stamped? What about the kids? They don't have UK passports, as I never saw the need - we've not been outside Europe with them yet, so ID cards are just easier.

UK government website says: "Nah, you'll be right. Nothing'll change". EU says: border checks, stamps in passports, visas, restrictions on goods, checking of luggage...and more"

Basically, fuck you, UK government.

You already needed a passport to get into Britain, we've never been in the Schengen zone

[Stom]

On a sunny note, was planning a holiday to the UK...rather complicated...

Will we be able to use ID cards? Will I be stopped on the way back and get my passport stamped? What about the kids? They don't have UK passports, as I never saw the need - we've not been outside Europe with them yet, so ID cards are just easier.

UK government website says: "Nah, you'll be right. Nothing'll change". EU says: border checks, stamps in passports, visas, restrictions on goods, checking of luggage...and more"

Basically, fuck you, UK government.

You already needed a passport to get into Britain, we've never been in the Schengen zone

No, you didn't need a passport. We've gone through 10s of times on ID cards, they are perfectly valid forms of identification.

The worst thing is that I checked the UK advice a couple of days ago and it said there would be no change: EU nationals could still enter the UK with their ID cards, no visas needed, etc...which the EU has now said is complete bollox.

[Stom]

On a sunny note, was planning a holiday to the UK...rather complicated...

Will we be able to use ID cards? Will I be stopped on the way back and get my passport stamped? What about the kids? They don't have UK passports, as I never saw the need - we've not been outside Europe with them yet, so ID cards are just easier.

UK government website says: "Nah, you'll be right. Nothing'll change". EU says: border checks, stamps in passports, visas, restrictions on goods, checking of luggage...and more"

Basically, fuck you, UK government.

You already needed a passport to get into Britain, we've never been in the Schengen zone

And official confirmation if you needed it: https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control/be ... for-the-uk

[Which Tyler]

Fair enough. I've always had to have a passport, and my brother in law was turned back at Calais for not having one.

[Digby]

Fair enough. I've always had to have a passport, and my brother in law was turned back at Calais for not having one.

In theory Europe was open borders, at least before 9/11, but in practice you've always needed a passport

[Stom]

Fair enough. I've always had to have a passport, and my brother in law was turned back at Calais for not having one.

Oh, Brits need it. But EU nationals who don't have insane governments who decide not to have ID cards on the back of Daily Mail articles CAN go anywhere on the ID card they need to carry with them at all times anyway, and which fits into their wallet (except the frankly insane Romanians, who have some big ass piece of shit).

[Which Tyler]

My brother-in-law is French, with a French ID card when he was turned away, 3-4 years ago

[Stom]

Fair enough. I've always had to have a passport, and my brother in law was turned back at Calais for not having one.

In theory Europe was open borders, at least before 9/11, but in practice you've always needed a passport

You don't need a passport to travel between any land border within the EU. But any policeman has the right to demand one off you, even if you're a native of that country. Though I've never seen that in the UK, it happens here and in Austria for sure. And in Romania, but as they're technically not in the Schengen, it's a different matter.

[Stom]

My brother-in-law is French, with a French ID card when he was turned away

That's insanity. So it belongs right here on this thread

[Which Tyler]

My brother-in-law is French, with a French ID card when he was turned away

That's insanity. So it belongs right here on this thread

It felt wrong at the time, but none of us really knew.

[Banquo]

No. Norway plus and EU 2.0 are worse than staying and their proponents need to say so. The WA in theory offers the opportunity to negotiate something different than BRINO minus, in practice no-one believes it likely that it will be a good outcome. Their strategy is exactly what you say.

Personally I'm hugely in favour of Germany+; though granted, it's not really a compromise position.

indeed and indeed. Hence those advocating BRINO minus or whatever need to be honest and say we already have it good compared to other EU members and we should stay in.

[Sandydragon]

No. Norway plus and EU 2.0 are worse than staying and their proponents need to say so. The WA in theory offers the opportunity to negotiate something different than BRINO minus, in practice no-one believes it likely that it will be a good outcome. Their strategy is exactly what you say.

Personally I'm hugely in favour of Germany+; though granted, it's not really a compromise position.

indeed and indeed. Hence those advocating BRINO minus or whatever need to be honest and say we already have it good compared to other EU members and we should stay in.

But that doesn’t respect the result of the narrowly won, Russian influenced, dog whistle politics motivated referendum that cannot under any circumstances be revisited.