Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.
It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.
Puja
If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.
I imagine a fair few less loony Tories will join them. Then they'll be bigger than the Lib Dems...
If it means we have a "centrist" party, great. They'll take votes from both Tories and Labour. And until either other party gets their act together and makes the "difficult" decision regarding Brexit, they'll get votes.
The Tory problem is infiltration from UKIP which is helped by some of the right wing MPs who have lurked under the radar for years and have only recently got any media attention.
There is still an opportunity to redeem the party and pull it back towards the centre. But if Boris or JRM become the next leader, then standby for defections.
Sandydragon wrote:The Tory problem is infiltration from UKIP which is helped by some of the right wing MPs who have lurked under the radar for years and have only recently got any media attention.
There is still an opportunity to redeem the party and pull it back towards the centre. But if Boris or JRM become the next leader, then standby for defections.
May's Brexit stance has alienated too much of the party. There's at least 3-4 MPs who could leave and join this new "centrist" party.
And for the Conservatives to return to centre-right would need Ummama to give up the centre-right he's just staking claim to.
No, the Conservatives are going to be right, Labour are going to be left. The new party will be centre-right and the Lib Dems will be centre-left until they crash and burn very soon thanks to some of the worst leadership decisions ever made.
Parties come and go all the time, it's only the Conservative party of the current lot who've shown any durability.
Very likely the seven get nowhere, but that's not an end to seeking a new beginning. And there's plenty of momentum which can be realised if it's wanted
Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.
It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.
Puja
If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.
Agree it’s just 7, this evening they are up to 8. The Dup has only 10 and that was worth a billion.
Any chance this will end up being a move towards proportional representation?
Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.
It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.
Puja
If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.
Even just the 8 gives May a headache, before the ERG had the far stronger nuclear option of bringing down the government by splitting off. Now May can't afford to lose even a low number of europhiles who suddenly have a possible home
Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.
It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.
Puja
If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.
Agree it’s just 7, this evening they are up to 8. The Dup has only 10 and that was worth a billion.
Any chance this will end up being a move towards proportional representation?
Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.
It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.
Puja
If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.
Even just the 8 gives May a headache, before the ERG had the far stronger nuclear option of bringing down the government by splitting off. Now May can't afford to lose even a low number of europhiles who suddenly have a possible home
May could do with 40 odd Labour MPs jumping ship so she could ignore the ERG.
Puja wrote:The whole idea of a new third political party in the UK is utterly pointless until we sort out our antiquated electoral system that forces a two party contest. You cannot have genuine multi-party competition for government while FPtP exists.
It's a point McDonnell appears to have missed in his instant claim that Ummuna et al should call instant by-elections. At least the Secret Seven can be vaguely relied upon as an anti-Tory, anti-austerity voting bloc, whereas a by-election would likely see some of the seats lost to the Conservatives if the left vote split evenly.
Puja
If it’s just 7 MPs then it will make little difference. If a larger number move across then it could become very interesting. Their immediate disadvantage is that they don’t have the party machinery to support them, but they could split votes.
Even just the 8 gives May a headache, before the ERG had the far stronger nuclear option of bringing down the government by splitting off. Now May can't afford to lose even a low number of europhiles who suddenly have a possible home
Zhivago wrote:3 tory defectors confirmed, we're up to eleven now
There will be more. Bigger than the Lib Dems already
4th biggest party in parliament. If they get to third place then they get some additional privileges IIRC, provided they are actually a party of course.
i dont know where the TIG is going. It may turn into a damp squib. It may flounder badly when it comes under close scrutiny, but its quite astonishing that it is registering a double digit score in a poll today when it isnt a proper party.
Watching the abysmal performance of May and Corbyn at PMQ's and the wretched quality of so many front benchers in Parliament, its really not surprising people are at least interested in looking at an alternative.
I heard from one of them just the other day so yes
But more importantly the letter from those leaving the Conservative party starts Dear Prime minister and ends yours sincerely, is PM a name or should that not end faithfully, or is it sincerely as to end a letter saying you're deserting someone faithfully would be absurd?
They've been replaced by a shirt PERL script that just asks for a second referendum every PMQs
Digby wrote:
But more importantly the letter from those leaving the Conservative party starts Dear Prime minister and ends yours sincerely, is PM a name or should that not end faithfully, or is it sincerely as to end a letter saying you're deserting someone faithfully would be absurd?
I'd say PM is a name/title. It's clearly being used as a direct and specific form of address, so yours sincerely is appropriate to my mind.
Mind, never mind about politicians not being faithful, it's a bit of a stretch to suggest many of them are sincere!
I'm hoping it becomes a transient grouping to bring soft Brexit or even no Brexit. Then they can fade into the ether with their unelectable neoliberal guff.
